Interview with Sylvia Garcia, October 14, 2012, Madison, Wisconsin

[title slide]

HEREDIA: Could please your full name, place of birth, and date of birth.

GARCIA: My name is Sylvia Garcia, and I was born in Waukesha, Wisconsin in May of 1952.

HEREDIA: Could you please tell us about your parents: their names, birth dates, and birth place as well?

GARCIA: My father's name was Benito Garcia, and he was from the state of Durango, from Mexico. And he was born in March 1926. And my mother's name was Isabel Aberzola, and she was born in Tyler, Texas in January of 1925.

HEREDIA: Do you have any siblings?

GARCIA: I have three siblings. I have a sister who's fourteen months younger than mine, her name is Beatriz Riojas, and she lives in Waukesha. And I have two brothers, David Garcia and Benito Garcia. They both live in Waukesha as well.

HEREDIA: Do you have any children?

GARCIA: I have two daughters, Laura Manuelos, and Marissa Manuelos.

HEREDIA: And finally could you tell us a little bit about your ethnic background?

GARCIA: I am Mexican American, although I stopped identifying myself as that in 1970, and I started identifying myself as a Chicana. And I feel that it's not that I'm trying to dismiss my Mexican origin but, it's for identity purposes. I 00:02:00feel that a Chicana reflects my experiences in life.

HEREDIA: And how does being a Chicana formed your career as an activist?

GARCIA: Okay, it kind of started in high school, and in high school I was part of the Young Democrats in that area. If you know Waukesha, we were a very small group because Waukesha, and Waukesha county is very republican. So we would have our meetings and we would- they were part business but mainly there were also social activities. But when I really started feeling the energy of what it's like to be [an] activist was when we went to a local conference. I think at that 00:03:00point that's when I realized there's so much more that can be done in my life as one person than what I been feeling up to then in that particular point in time. I do think that the activism became clear when I hit the University of Wisconsin Madison in 1970. It was the fall of the summer that followed the Sterling Hall bombing. So when I got here and I lived in Chadbourne, on the ninth floor, there were still riots and demonstrations going on in the street on University Avenue. That whole era in general, you know, the Vietnam War, Civil Rights, the whole 00:04:00combination of things, really electrified the whole environment for revolution. For going beyond the status quo, challenging the status quo. The first couple of years as a college student, I'm sure you know about this, it's just about finding yourself; it's about figuring out where you want to stay, what group you want to be, what you want to pursue as far as your college education. And so I spent about two and a half years trying to figure that out. I stayed out for a semester and a summer working but, it became very apparent to me, at that point 00:05:00in time, that Waukesha was no longer the environment that I felt comfortable in.

So I came back to the University of Wisconsin, started my junior year, and, in fact, started to think about myself as a person: my growth, my development. It was about that time that I came in contact with students here at the university, Chicano students. One in particular, who you guys may know, and that is Ernesto. Ernesto Monje was a graduate student at that time. He was sort of mentoring me 00:06:00in terms of the art of how to self-define yourself. You know, kinds of things we should be looking at. He also gave me a lot of information with regards to some of the issues that we faced. Some of the issues that we faced was part of my own self-discovery but he just solidified those for me. That was, coming to a university, where I was only five percent of the population of a Latino background let me know that this institution was not very welcoming to me as a Latina. And I felt that they could do a lot more for the Latino population than they had at this point. I became very active in La Raza Unida, which was at that time the predecessor of M.E.Ch.A.. And I became involved in- the main issue was 00:07:00self-identity and presence: representation within this org and being recognized as Latino students. What we did was we ended up talking about items that were-agenda items- of importance to us. And one of those was that we really wanted to have a Chicano studies department at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

So that's kind of where my activism really started as far as my Chicano/Latino background. It's also the place where I acted initially as a member of the group. I then became the president of the group. My vice president 00:08:00actually activated the document that assisted us in regards to moving forward with our demand.

HEREDIA: I have a question about April 14th 1974, which was when the marches for protesting for Chicano studies started, could you tell us about what you remember?

GARCIA: What I recall about that is that, regardless of the amount of activity, we still felt like we weren't being heard. So, following the rule of other movements, not just in the farmworker area but, in the civil rights movement, 00:09:00and the Vietnam War protest movement, we started having protests on the hill against the university, demanding that the university pay attention to us. That was at the School of Letters and Science, with the Dean then- his name always escapes me I think that's something that I purposely block- and so that was when we started actually walking up and down the hill and protesting that we wanted to be heard. They weren't paying attention to us. It was also at that time that we kind of formed teatro, similar to the theater group that had been formed out 00:10:00in California by Luis Valdez and some of the other people working with Corky Gonzalez and Rodolfo Cuno and that kind of thing. So we started putting skits on -and I forgot my picture and I am sorry about that. But, I have a picture of us standing in front of Lincoln.

And what we were doing was we were putting on a skit with nametags on like seven different people. I was the teacher but, each nametag had sort of a derogatory stereotype of what we feel that the majority of the population thinks of us. So being a dunce, being stupid--you know--being a gangbanger, all of those signs were on there. And the skit was about my calling 00:11:00on them asking them to answer a question that was totally foreign to their culture and then basically the whole point of that was to show that they were being taken out of their element, out of their knowledge and cultural history in order to come to this university to be stereo type and generalized according to the white man's mold. And so there were skits like that that we would put on in public. And I think that for me that theater group represented some of the things that are very important today and are being probably talked about in similar situations such as the First Wave group. And that was talking about our 00:12:00isolation, our lack of recognition, the majority's lack of awareness of what we had to go through in order to get to the university of Wisconsin.

HEREDIA: Also by 1975 you had already graduated from Madison and you were the president of La Raza Unida, could you tell us about the work that you did then towards establishing a Chicano Studies program at UW.

GARCIA: Well I think my point in that whole- when you talk about the evolution of that- I think that where I was probably most effective was raising awareness. 00:13:00There were a lot of people working, sort of, behind the scenes, who were having conversations with legislatures. We had one man who was a professor who was working internally to get people interested in developing a program- or at that time a department. So I think that the students were more about activating and getting people to be aware and recognize the need for the Chicano Department. Because at that time it was not Latino it was just Chicano.

HEREDIA: So I have a question about the fifty-thousand dollars from state assembly that were given for ethnic studies program including the Chicano Studies rational for a Chicano Studies Department, there you and the Raza Unida Party wrote an analysis stating the need and a right to a Chicano Studies 00:14:00Department on campus which was also supported by mayor Sargon; could you tell us about what you were trying to convey to the UW campus by using the term Chicano.

GARCIA: I think basically that we had a history, a culture, a language that was very rich and that was very real as far as our communities were concerned. But again, we felt like we were just being dismissed as a viable group of individuals with contributions and gifts that could be given to the university, and we felt like a department would help us talk a little bit more about that 00:15:00richness, that culture. Not only educating ourselves but, educating others to what it meant to be a Chicana or a Chicano. So I think from my perspective it really was about trying to get money to fund that. And I don't know too much- because it was the time that I left I don't' know what happened to the money- but I understand from other sources that that money, although specifically requested for a Chicano studies department ended up being more of a package to fund ethnic studies of different kinds, which in a way, was unfair. It didn't 00:16:00really respond to the need but, it did get something going, such that the fall of 1976 the first Chicano Studies program class began and was taught by Prospero Saez.

HEREDIA: How did you feel about that victory there?

It wasn't what the students, and obviously what I didn't want. It was more of a token representation of what we really fought for but, at the same time, I was glad that at least the university was acknowledging the fact that this was a very important group, we were a very important presence, and they at least gave 00:17:00us partial funding in order to start that.

HEREDIA: Why did you feel that it was important to have a unique program outside of the umbrella of ethnic studies?

GARCIA: Well, because-I think that, there are a couple of reasons but- I think the biggest reason was, as a culture in this particular Untied States, we've also always been known as the silent population, the silent group. We're there, we're there in great numbers but, for some reason, people always seem to just sort of gloss over us. You know, we're the farm labor, we're the factory workers--you know-- we're the ones that help stimulate this economy but, we don't really have recognition of who we are as a people. And so, for me, it was 00:18:00very important for this institution, this university in particular, to recognize that. And because even though back then I wasn't so aware of the growth of our population, at the same time I felt like we should have the same types of opportunities that other people were having, and that other ethnic minorities, for whatever reason, were obtaining; which, again we're still seen as this invisible group that didn't require those same kinds of amenities, or considerations.

HEREDIA: In April of 1976 there was a conference held in Whitewater that criticized the government for ignoring Latino community's needs. What were the 00:19:00main concerns presented there and what was the progress made?

GARCIA: You have to know that by 1976 I was gone, and my involvement with the student group at that point in time became more my having to survive with my education. You know, getting a job, so at that point past December of 1975, I really was not familiar with that conference; I did not attend that conference.

HEREDIA: Well, in 1977 you were honored with the award of Los Primeros, what did 00:20:00that mean to you, how did you feel about that?

GARCIA: That meant a lot to me, and the reason that it meant a lot-first of all is because I didn't think that- how can I put this; you have to know that for a Latina to actually be recognized back in those days, where everything was very gender oriented towards the men of our culture, for me to be recognized it meant a lot because it meant that somebody actually felt that I was part of that group that help initiate and institute this movement towards a Chicano Studies Department. So I was very honored, and, at the same time, I was also kind of weary because I was thinking: Why am I the only Chicana getting this? You know? 00:21:00There were other women who were in that fight; there were other women who had been alienated from the group because of the gender issues, and yet they weren't being recognized with that particular award.

So, I don't know, I think getting into the discussion of the gender differences and how some females survived it, and how others didn't, is kind of a very bittersweet experience for me, because it's hard enough to feel minimized by your white dominant counterparts; it's another thing to be minimized by people from your own culture. And I think that 00:22:00that's one of the things that I think, you know, we don't want to be tokens in a movement, we want to be recognized for what our real contributions are. And so I think that whole experience with La Raza, and the people who were on there, who were predominately males, left me feeling a little taste of bitterness in my mouth because, again, I feel like women weren't being used for their brains or their resources but, more in terms of the support system for the men. And I personally dislike that. It didn't allow our women to voice their concerns and issues as well.

HEREDIA: So was that a large issue within the movement itself?

GARCIA: I think- I can't say for other movements, although I've heard from others that that is an issue, that that was an issue. But I can tell you this, having a women or two as token representatives of a group that feels being manipulated by a larger group is not a comfortable feeling. And it's also wasting a lot of resources, a lot of positive contributions and ideas, techniques, approaches that women have that might not be as hard ass as 00:24:00sometimes males think they have to use in their negotiations. So I guess I'm trying hard not to say this, but, gender was a consideration for how that group not only survived but also, how it continued once I was gone because I do not recall after 1975 that there was really any female presence in leadership capacities when I left. I could be wrong, I was kind of gone by then but I guess what I'm saying is that it has to be recognized that that was not a time where women were really appreciated other than to cook, or to be somebody's bed buddy 00:25:00at that point.

HEREDIA: On a better note, just recently on April 25th, it was just proclaimed Chicano and Latino Studies day in the city of Madison, which you and Petra Guerra proposed. Why is celebrating a department important in this way?

GARCIA: I think it's important for a lot of reasons. It was important to celebrate how far the studies program has come from in 1976 when it constituted two or three faculty members providing classes, to a program where we now have at least twelve classes that are offered each semester by faculty- wonderful 00:26:00faculty affiliates- with our particular program. I thought, again, it was important for the university to recognize we're here, we've grown from having less than .5% of the student body being Latinos to now it being seven percent of the student body. Some people may look at those numbers and thing "Boy, that's really dismal". But, of the group that's growing the fastest, the Latino contingency is the one that's growing and so it's another reminder that, we're here, we're going to stay here, and we're going to go for more. It's also a way of waking people up to the fact that, in our program itself, at some point we had 2.5 lines of faculty. Lines mean full time employees who worked directly for 00:27:00the program. Now we only have .25 lines so with people who have left who were contributors to the program, as faculty who were part of the Chicano Latino Studies program, we have now gone from 2.5 to .25. It's at the growth of the students most recently-that statistics that we looked at- indicate that Latino students are growing at four percent, much higher than any of the other three targeted groups that are at this university. So to me it's a startling contradiction that we're surviving based upon the volunteer and the faculty 00:28:00contributions of faculty members who care about the program but, the university has not done a thing to reinforce the fact that we need faculty lines, not only to continue but to grow.

HEREDIA: Now we're going to move on to some of the positions that you've held. So could you please talk about your role as the chairmen of Latino/Latina health issues focus group?

GARCIA: In 1990 when I was working at the city of Madison as an assistant affirmative action officer, I was diagnosed with cancer. It called the lymphoblastic lymphoma. The survival rates for people with that kind of cancer 00:29:00were not real great. I happen to be with a health program where they had an exceptional oncology group and the doctor who became my doctor at that point consulted with the university and put me under a very severe and strict type of chemotherapy and radiation, so even though my cancer was diagnosed in July of 1990, I did not go into remission until 1991. And I did not finish my chemotherapy until February of 1992. So for me the fact that I survived that 00:30:00with two small children, a four-year-old and a two and a half year old, made it seem as though I've been given a gift.

And I felt that it was very important that, as a Latina in the community who knew English, knew a little bit about the health system but, had this sister and mother who were very active on my behalf to find out as much as they could with regards to my treatment and what was going on, it was very important that, myself, with that support, survived this cancer then someone who did not have that kind of support would need it coming from somewhere, especially if they did not have family members in the area. I 00:31:00think it was the end of 1992, I actually became a member of the American Cancer Society. I was on the board for this region, and one of the things that I kept advocating was the fact that we have a presence as far as the Latino community with regards to issues involving cancer. I helped form the Latino Health Council. So it was with my personal experience as well as the resources that were given to me by the American Cancer Society, that we became a group in the Madison community.

And I was not the only one, Amelia Schroeder, who is still here and working- I think she's working for a children's program at the state level- and a woman who is now gone Mercedes Medina, who moved back to Texas. It 00:32:00was the three of us kind of help form a group that would start dealing with the issues of cancer in the community. The American Cancer Society funded us by allowing us to have meeting, by helping us getting people there, invitations and refreshments and that kind of thing until it became very apparent that for the Latino community, cancer was not the only issue. We have high incidents of diabetes, we have high incidents of heart problems, and so that Latino council expanded to include other issues beyond cancer. And it was about that time that other people became, sort of, vocal, and really worked at trying to call 00:33:00attention to some of these other health issues that the Latino council began to really expand.

About that time, I started dropping out because, at that time, one of the things that became clear to me after having gone through this cancer, was that my health, my energy level was going to be limited. And so from that point forward I had to be very careful about what I contributed my attention to. And then I had these two young women that I was raising, and I wanted to make sure that in raising them, they felt the presence of their mother in their lives, which I am very proud of both of them. One is twenty-five now, the other just turned twenty-four, and they are the extension of my lifeline because they 00:34:00are exceptional. They are solid in terms of their views. They're emotion like their mother; they're hormonal like their mother. They also use those emotions in order to create positive energy. And my oldest is working at becoming a nurse, and my youngest is actually working at coming to the university because she wants to be involved in Chicano Latinos Studies.

So I feel that there's a time when people at a certain age have to draw back but, what we do is we mentor 00:35:00our younger people: our children, our nieces, our nephews, to be able to take over and have that recognition of their place in the world and how to contribute back to their communities. I've had four second cousins come to the university as undergrads and are studying here, and I have one cousin-once removed but, you know Latinos say he's not my primo, he's my nephew. And he is here also studying as a graduate student at the university and is very interested in the issues of border and things that he thing affect our population as well.

HEREDIA: Do you think you could give us the timeline of when you were involved in the health issue focus group?

GARCIA: That actually occurred at the end of 1992 to the beginning of 1996.

HEREDIA: Could you talk a little bit about the role you played in the city of Madison as the affirmative action assistant?

GARCIA: Yeah that's a good one too. It was harder than heck to get the city of Madison to open up and look at individuals of color as viable applicants and 00:37:00people to hire for positions. I want to say that my proudest moment with the city of Madison, and I don't know how she would see this but, we actually got two Latinas in the Madison police department; one who survived and stayed of a long time, the other one left but then became an attorney. She came back and got her law degree from the university. That person, who is now retired, Rosa Aguilu, was one of the people that we worked very hard to get into the city of Madison Police department. I worked with her, and my supervisor at the time (the affirmative action officer) worked with me, but we also worked with the wives of 00:38:00high-level police officers, who also felt the need to make sure that there was diversification in the police department of women, Latina women.

HEREDIA: Do you think you can give us a timeline on that?

GARCIA: After I graduated I worked on a local basis in Waukesha with La Casa de Esperanza. I worked for the United Migrant Opportunity Services for a year in a half. I moved back to Madison in 1979 working as a planner for the CETA program. I don't know how many of you are familiar with that but, it was a comprehensive employment of training act that was put in place in order to assist targeted 00:39:00minorities to get jobs at the time. Then I started working with the affirmative action office in about 1980. So I worked with the affirmative action office from 1980 to (almost ten years) 1990. I had a baby in between there and I was on maternity leave for a while but, other than that, I worked pretty close to ten years in the affirmative action office.

HEREDIA: You just mentioned the United Migrant Opportunity Service, UMOS, what role die you play there?

GARCIA: I have to kind of go backwards to go forwards. When I was working at the university, in addition to doing my study work, and doing my work with the student group, I was also an intern with the department of justice. And at that point I was asked to help-myself and another woman from the community- to do a survey of the impact of arrests in the Latino community. What kind of misdemeanor, felonies, that kind of thing? Well with those skills, the planning skills that I obtained, when I left the university, went to La Casa for about a 00:41:00year, and then left to go to UMOS, UMOS, I went there as a planner. So I worked in the planning field doing work for writing grants and proposals for local area- what they would call at that time masses. They were the areas where there were seven different regions and so I worked with them. But I also worked on a federal level by writing a youth employment program. And so what we did was we actually funded youth employment programs throughout the state for migrant young people. And I think from that perspective, having those skills, as an intern in college, assisted me in having those skills for applying them when I got out of 00:42:00college and was in the work area.

HEREDIA: You also did some work in La Casa Esperanza, can you tell us a little bit about what you did there?

GARCIA: When I got out of college and I was trying to- I got my degree in- I also had an internship where I worked with Nes Flores, who at that time was the head of the migrant office that was being run by the local, the state labor department. (They have gone through so many names) So I worked with him and did 00:43:00an internship with regards to the migrant camps and how inappropriate and how dismal the housing was for migrant individuals who were coming from the south to work in the fields in Wisconsin. And it was at that time that I started focusing my school life in the area of the impact that that kind of a situation had on migrant workers. So that influenced me to get my degree in agricultural economics. It influenced me in understanding that the only way that we could really do improvement for individuals coming through the migrant stream was to 00:44:00help them find jobs, settle and find jobs that will help them improve their well-being, their economics. Continuously following that migrant stream, even though it was satisfying for some, did not give them the economic power that they needed.

And so when I realized that and I went back to my community when I graduated. I was feeling that I really, really needed to work in our community. Not because we had necessarily a lot of migrant workers in our community but, (because we're an industrial area in Waukesha) because a lot of the people who came out of the roots, whose were in migrant streams, were the ones that settled 00:45:00out and assisted in the war effort by taking over the jobs in the various factories that needed workers. And there has always been this linkage towards migrant workers coming up to the Midwest, finding industrial jobs and then gaining their wealth that way and, either staying here and settling down or, going back to their homes. So for me it was very important that not only did we know what that economic impact was but, it was also, for me, important to know what the social effects of that were too. And I think that I can say that even 00:46:00though people economically became more stable, at the same time their cultural heritage, their cultural entity, who they were took a beating; because they were basically- again- like I said, 2% of the people in Waukesha when I was growing up. They were essentially a big minority in a city where the rest of the population was white.

The positive of that was that it was a very strong community. Our family was very close; we were close to other people in the community who were either related in one way or another. And so the positive of 00:47:00it is that we kept our culture strong in that way. We took some of what our parents had in Mexico and Texas, and we took a lot of that. We also lost some of it but, I think for the most part it kept us in tact. So you can grow up in that smaller enclave of a community and still maintain that heritage and that pride. Once you stepped out of that community it was difficult because you were kind of at the mercy of a --what I call the wolves that were hanging around there. It was important for me to give back to the community so that's why I took a job at Casa de Esperanza because there were activists in Waukesha at that time too and 00:48:00they also needed to establish themselves to do the same kind of work that I was trying to do and that was to give back to the community.

HEREDIA: Why did you adapt this role instead of just letting other people do it, why did you feel that it was your responsibility to do all this activist work?

GARCIA: Well, I think a lot of it came from growing up in a community where people really try to suppress who we were. I remember when we were growing up in my neighborhood, my father spoke Spanish only, that was his primary language. My 00:49:00mother spoke English and Spanish but she spoke a version of Spanglish; I mean, she never really did know how to speak English in a sense. But what she did know, what she had, they did very well. So his income allowed us to be essentially middleclass form a financial basis. What it did not allow us to be was recognized as full fledge members and citizens of that community. And the racism was so settle. You didn't know when you were being treated differently other than what you felt in your gut in terms of the choices that were made for you. You weren't making the choice they were made for you.

And so for me it became real important that we needed that kind of justice. We needed that kind of equal representation that we did not get- that I did not get- growing up in that community, and that other of my friends did not get. Of the group of women that I used to hang out with, the Latinas, there were like seven or eight of us. I was the only one that went to college. Most of them got married, had babies at a very young age; others had babies and never got married. And so my point was, they did not have the opportunities that I did, and the only reason I had those opportunities is because my family had been in Waukesha long enough so that my youngest uncle ended up going to Carroll College. And he was one of those people that infused the idea- as well as my parents, my parents wanted me to be 00:51:00educated- but he infused the idea that you must get your education. But, I wanted my education to be supportive of something I thought was very important, and that was equal treatment, equal justice for a group that's not allowed or given a lot of opportunity to shine.

And I felt that's kind of throughout my history in my work, that has been always the primary-you know- affirmative action, I was the diversity manager for Alliant Energy, bad experience. I came back to the university working in the AAP program and then finally coming full circle to working in the Chicano Latino Studies Program. And I have to say, 00:52:00because I know that question was on the sheet that you gave me but, what was the most fulfilling moment, as far as my work history has been, and that has been that I have come to participate and be a part of something that I so actively and passionately wanted to be a part of this institution. So you know, in my role, and in my capacity, I don't know how much I could continue to do as far as making change but, it is my hope that I continue to be a change agency while I'm here, and even when I leave. You know, I don't plan on sitting back and just sort of leaving it up to others to identify how I want to live my life.

HEREDIA: How do your parents feel about all this activist work you do?

GARCIA: They didn't really understand it. And as a matter of fact, I remember there was a time when, back in the seventies I was wearing, you know, my combat boots and my army jacket, and I would go to family reunions. And in those reunions I would be given dirty looks by some of my relatives, my more conservative relatives, who felt, "what's her trick, what's she doing". But, I think for the most part my parents understood. My father wanted me to be a doctor, and I think my mother just wanted me to get married and have children; she wanted me to be educated but, she wanted me to have the benefit of a family. 00:54:00So, for them, those two things were the most important things: getting my education, getting a degree in medicine-which very soon after I took chemistry and I said, "Dad this is not going to happen"- and then making sure that I, -as well as my mother because it was also my mother's wish- that I have children because I wanted to pass on a legacy to them that my parents had passed on to me.

HEREDIA: What are your hopes for the future?

GARCIA: In my short lifespan, I've seen change but, the change I've seen has been minimal, from my perspective. It hasn't been at the point of something that I feel is outstanding or tremendous or anything like that. But, the fact that 00:55:00I've seen change and the fact that I've had an opportunity to influence others to also become change agents is very important to me. So what I see in the future, especially now that I know our population is growing by leaps and mounds, that other people will soon realize that no one is going back to Mexico, or Puerto Rico, or South America. You know, we're here, we're here to stay. There has got to be some understanding and recognition of who we are, our culture and what we represent, and that we will make more strides to be active parts of our governmental, and become more active in political activism for the 00:56:00contributions and the rights of our people.

So it is my hope that that is going to grow and that there will be maybe someday, a Latino president in the white house, even though that person is going to struggle as Obama has as an African America but, at least there's going to be that representation and that knowledge that we have someone who not only will represent our people but equally with other members and citizens of this country. So I think that's kind of what I see as hope, you know. And it's probably not going to be done in thirty years, which is what I consider to be my life frame but, that it will be done and eventually 00:57:00it will be there.

HEREDIA: Okay on that note I would like to thank you very much for all the knowledge you've given us.

ARENAS: Sylvia I wanted you to clarify for us a little bit of the history you went over at the UW- Madison campus with the creation of the La Raza student group which moved into being M.E.Ch.A. Who were the shapers and movers that came together to form the La Raza Party student organization? Who came together for that here?

GARCIA: Actually the people who came together for La Raza were graduate students. There were a lot of graduate students that were involved: a lawyer 00:58:00from Racine, Lupe Villarreal, John Castro and his wife- I can't even remember her name- he was a graduate student, she was a graduate student. And so at that point the graduate students were the ones that really were the make up of La Raza Unida. It moved, again, this is my theory- but it moved to be undergraduate when certain people within the establishment, certain Latinos, understood that they were going to be challenged a lot by the graduate students (the more educated students) but, not so much by the undergraduate students. They wanted to be mentors of the young students, not because they were being generous but, 00:59:00it was because we could serve as an arm to getting things together for their purposes, their agenda. Again that's my own opinion but, I do think that there were very few graduate students afterwards and it became primarily undergraduate. It became a lot of students from San Antonio, Racine, and a couple of students from the Milwaukee area and Chicago but it was mainly undergraduate.

ARENAS: Then how long after you left campus did the La Raza Student organization become M.E.Ch.A.?

GARCIA: I'm not exactly sure how long--

ARENAS: Like three to five years? Ten years?

GARCIA: It must have been about three to five years because a lot of the same males that had been in La Raza Unida also were the ones that initiated the movement towards M.E.Ch.A.

ARENAS: Would that be names like Tony Castaneda and Daniel Clayton?

GARCIA: And David Saldana, although I think he kind of moved out of that a little bit...

ARENAS: He was also in Racine--

GARCIA: Yeah, he was from Racine--Garcia, I can't remember his first name. Several people from Racine--I have them all written down but, I'm having a hard time recalling. But they were primarily people from San Antonio, Emit Campos. He 01:01:00and some of the other ones who were very vocal and actually had a different style than I did.

ARENAS: One of the legacies of M.E.Ch.A. is this historical schism between the Chicano Latino Studies Program and M.E.Ch.A. And the M.E.Ch.A. orientation was combative but not always clear on what their agenda was. So I was hearing that students were moving away from M.E.Ch.A. for a while because their strategies no longer fit with the times. And then there was a while when the campus had a floundering M.E.Ch.A. that was led by these old veteranos from the 70's who were 01:02:00now working in the community. They were taxi drivers and restaurant owners but, they were still leading M.E.Ch.A., which kind of made M.E.Ch.A. and odd character for a while. Would you agree now that M.E.Ch.A. has gone back to its roots of being a campus player?

GARCIA: I would say that except for the fact that M.E.Ch.A. still unfortunately sees their style as more combative and critical of the system that I would have to say that that's where they are moving to. I don't think quite in the same volatile and explosive but, I do think that they are moving that way. I 01:03:00understand the reason, you know because, as I've cited before in terms of the statistics of the numbers on campus and that fact that, you know, this is still a racist community, I can understand why they do that. But, it doesn't lead to making friends with people who are in the system, who can help them in many more ways than they are willing to admit.

ARENAS: What do you think the philosophical and strategic differences are between Wisconsin Chicanos born and raised, like we are, and those who come to Wisconsin, through the migrant stream, or we had that huge influx of La Raza 01:04:00Party members back in the seventies and they took over the nonprofits in Milwaukee, and some of them came up to Madison, became graduate students and then stayed in Madison. What do you think are the fundamental, strategic and philosophical differences are between the homegrown Chicanos, and those who moved here from La Raza Party?

GARCIA: Well I would say the philosophical difference is basically in terms of communities that they grew up in. They grew up in communities where there were a lot of people of their kind. And they felt the strength that comes from being one of many. When you talk about people that were born and raised here, in Wisconsin, you're talking about one of a very few. And I think the tactics and how we approach things are very very different. Because we here, in Wisconsin, 01:05:00and I'm talking about myself, grew up in two worlds. I grew up in the comfort and loving care of my family, which was a small enclave. It was a small community on the Eastside of Waukesha. But then I had to go outside of that to deal with the dominance and how I conducted myself in this group, and how I conducted myself in the outside group were two different things. I was always, when I moved out of that circle, I was always walking on eggshells in the dominant community. I wanted to have some of the same traits that they had, and 01:06:00freedoms, and opportunities but, the fact is that I was never really recognized in that regard. You know, that was never going to be my reality in Waukesha.

And even now, my family still lives in the same neighborhood. My sister who was younger than me said: "We must have grown up in two different worlds because I never felt as much as you did". And I said, "that's because you were content to stay within your community and I did not want to be constrained by this community". Not that they were constraining but, I didn't want to be enclosed. I wanted to go out and experience the world. The world was really much tougher on me than I thought it was going to be. And so I really feel that that's the 01:07:00difference is that we became more sensitive to our exterior, to how people treated us from an exterior perspective that we were more sensitive to that. Whereas I think when you grow up in a large community, you feel more safe and secure, and it is a cultural shock when you go outside of your community and you haven't had that exposure at any point in time. I grew up with it. I grew up with having to go to school in a white community, coming back to my home community. So I was always geared up for what I can do out there, what I couldn't do out there, and then coming back to the safety of my home and do whatever.

ARENAS: What you're tell me is that you really were functioning from a bicultural perspective- in two worlds. And your strategies would change depending on the world you were operating in. What about the influence of other race ethnic groups in your work? I have found that some Midwest Chicanas fond comfort working with other women of color, not just solely Chicanas. And you witness the Wisconsin Women's minority network. Do you feel like growing up in the Midwest, we know how to navigate coalition building?

GARCIA: I we're more prone to it but, I also think that that's also considered to be a not so positive thing in people who come from communities where they feel the strength of their community. So I think that when we talk about, 01:09:00because we have so much understanding or knowledge and navigate in that world, I think a lot of times that that's seen as being a sellout. And I think that's one of the things that I've also had to, not only has it been from the perspective of a gender situation it's been that from being a Latina in a group of people who don't understand what it's like growing up where I was. The reason I felt I could get to the university was because I had, not only help from my family, but also because I learned the ways of the people outside my immediate circle.

And I think that that's hard for some people. It can be very hard; it can be very humiliating. I have felt sometimes like I'm just a fly on the wall. I can see and observe and hear everything but, I don't contribute a lot, and in some cases that's kind of what I had to do. But, never so much that I feel at this point, and I guess I'm old enough at this point that I can and will say "that" because that is the reality. We are still fighting that battle. In the thirty years in whatever line of work I've had, we are still fighting that battle and it needs 01:11:00to continue because I don't know when that balance, when that level playing field will actually curve for us but it's not going to be in the next thirty years. We are still going to have to keep approaching that.

And the other thing I think that is concerning to me is that we have children, even in our own family who are interracial and it's important for me that they not lose their understanding of where they come from either. And so I think that we can't get pinned against each other because some of us are more quote on quote white, some 01:12:00of us are more more-- I mean there shouldn't be "I am more Latino than you are". And I think that sometimes that's a game we get into and we start playing. And I don't think that any Latino should feel that they have to do something or prove something to their own community, I mean I think that we should just all be accepted for who we are. I mean I do think that it's very difficult because I do think that with the infusion of --even in the media, even among our entertainers--What constitutes the quote on quote American Dream for a Latino or Latina they are still emphasizing the capitalist forms of achievement, the white man's forms of achievement.

ARENAS: Material gain is a measure of your success--

GARCIA: Right, right, and I still think that that's not right. Somehow we have to tell our children that there is something to be said for postponed ratification; your education is what makes you, not how much money you have in the bank. And so I think that that's one of the things that bothers me in terms of moving forward. Again, we be very strict about our values, about what we were brought up with. You know, that even if you worked on a farm and you were farm laborers that you have that dignity and that recognition of yourself as being a positive person and having a positive background. So I think that that's kind of the thing that I hope we don't lose. And I can tell you right now, I make less, 01:14:00when I came back to the university I was making a third of what I was making at Alliant Energy but, it was something that I felt was important because I knew that in that culture I was not going to make a difference, in no way shape or form. In an educational institution, you can make a difference but it has to continue, it has to be strong.

ARENAS: Thank you very much.

HUETE GALEANO: [question]

GARCIA: In terms of my voice being heard there versus, I mean someone had asked a question about what my experienced was and, like I said, I always get 01:15:00reluctant to talk about that because, like I said it was bittersweet. As much as I really liked my male colleagues that I was working with, there were also some that were very misogynist, one or two of them. You're always going to have one that hates women being involved, and women know their place, and their place is that that kind of forum. But you also have the habits of our Latino brothers who, like I said thirty-three years ago were pretty strong, where they did not see women as contributors other than for their own personal use and their own personal good. And one person in particular, a professor, who would use his students--you know--as girlfriends at a when we really needed to be focusing on 01:16:00something else.

And the experience, the doubled experience that created for young Latinas and Chicanas to be seen as tools but, not really to be seen for their minds, and what they thought, and what they could contribute. They were basically in a way desensitized to that, to thinking of themselves as being positive contributors and being more of like, the handy person for a group of males, you know-- who needed them. I had one experience and, this gentleman is no longer living but he had gotten drunk and I was living in my own apartment on 01:17:00Johnson Street. And he came over after a night of boozing and knocked at my door. And it was like he had this expectation of me at that point and I basically said no, you can't come over here in the middle of the night and expect that I am going to perform for you. Which by the way after that- because he had been one of the leaders- I really distanced myself from him.

The point is that, not only was that his expectation but I think that that influenced a lot of the other younger members of the group in terms of how they should be treating women. And I think that at that point there was a real rift that 01:18:00occurred- this was right before I came on to the group and became very active. Many women have, sort of, separated themselves from the larger group because of an incident where that sort of expectation took place. So weren't free to get drunk and to drink because we had to watch out for ourselves. So I think that the fact that that was the mindset at that time (and I hope it's changed over the years), that you had to be respectful of each other based on your gender because women aren't just objects, women are thinking people who can contribute and do contribute, and have skills to contribute in a way that their male 01:19:00counterpart does not.

So when you talk about my experience in the Partido, I always have to be on guard about that. I wanted to be a buddy but, I didn't want to be so much of a buddy that someone would want to try to take advantage of me. To complicate matters La Raza Unida's office, where M.E.Ch.A.'s office was after that, were right next to Wunk Sheek; and I started dating someone from Wunk Sheek, who happens to be, was very political, who the men thought was manipulating me. So for me it was very funny that they would feel weary of me 01:20:00for thinking that I was being manipulated by someone outside of our culture when it was very clear that they were also in that position in terms of manipulation but, yeah so I think that it was hard being a woman.

It was hard to talk to the men and I couldn't talk to them in an authoritative way and say "you do this; you do that". I always had to talk to them in terms of the team process you know, what are we going to do and how are we going to do that. And sometimes I felt minimized. I did feel minimized by the way that they would interact with my, that the only time my voice carried any authority was when we were 01:21:00downstairs partying at the bar underneath us, rather than upstairs where we had our meetings.

MERCHANT: I mean you're not alone, we've heard this a number of times. This is common amongst women in the partido. The two things we've always heard was: "I learned how to drink beer" and it was a process of learning how to navigate the politics. They always had to fight for a place at the table. And there were very few women. And I guess my question is, my big question to you is, there were women in the partido, on the national level or in Texas or in California--

GARCIA: Yes!

MERCHANT: There was a few like Rosie Castro, Morgan Jimenez in Houston, they 01:22:00talked about taking the men head on.--Did you ever have any interaction with those women from the partido?

GARCIA: Well I didn't, I really didn't and that's where I think that I should have seen beyond what I was already seeing because then it would have fortified me a lot more. Like I said when I left I left kind of like you know *sigh*. To a certain extent it was a relief. And yet, a lot of those people, a lot of those men, I remember back when we got our awards were saying like "wasn't that a great time" and I was like, "okay, who for?". I respected them all, I really and 01:23:00truly respected them, except for the one or two misogynists who I knew hated me. And they didn't hate me for anything else other than that I was a woman outside of my place.

HUETE GALEANO: Was it difficult being a woman not only in the Raza Unida part but, also in the woman's movement which was also seen as more of a white woman's movement and how were you able to cope with being minimized in both of the movements. Also why did you choose to be more involved in the Chicano movement more than just the woman's movement?

GARCIA: I have to be honest with you. I never really interacted with the white 01:24:00feminist movement. My interaction was always with women of color and so form that perspective I never really experienced the white's women's movement. Let me say it that way because, shortly after I came back to Madison I got very involved in the Wisconsin Minority Women's Network, which was an old growth of CETA because they were being funded through the department of labor, region five, and it was always, it was a shared-we had the same types of issues with 01:25:00regards to employment, with regards to the glass ceiling, and with regards to our acceptance in the workforce, so it was not- I sort of bypassed-somehow I don't know how I did it- that whole white female movement, other than the fact that when I was going to school women who were involved with that were white and interacted with them but never on a political level. It was never from a political perspective.

And I kind of resented it when people called me a feminist actually because, it wasn't about being female and exercising my rights as a female, it was about being a Chicana and exercising my rights as a Latina female. And so it is very interesting to me- and again I never minimize and of 01:26:00the females who were active at the time --the white females. Never had I ever disrespected them at any time but, it wasn't my reality. It was their reality, and their reality is that they had a foot up from us because their husbands, their brothers, their fathers were the same people that were oppressing us at the time.

And even though they might have been oppressed, they weren't as oppressed as we were. And they were oppressing my dad too and my brothers so *laughs *. So I think that that's, with the white feminist movement, it just kind of wen by me. And I think it was because I got so involved in this women of color organization and networking that helped me understand that it was not only 01:27:00Latinas, there was a commonality among women of color. And we were fighting for different things than white women were. It was easier for a white woman to get a promotion, and it still is, than it is for a Latina.