Interview with Lucía Nuñez, date unknown

[title slide]

INTERVIEWER: Tell me a little about yourself.

NUÑEZ: I'm originally from Cuba, we left Cuba when I was 5 years old in 1965. We went to live on the U.S. Naval Base in Cuba. We lived there for 5 years and then we went to live in St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands, and that's mostly where I grew up. And then I went to school in New England to finish my last two years of high school and I applied to a boarding school in New England and then went to college, undergraduate at Connecticut and graduate school at University 00:01:00of Massachusetts Amherst.

INTERVIEWER: And what year did your family decide to move to the Midwest area?

NUÑEZ: We didn't arrive, I came here with my partner in 1999 in response to getting a job at . . . so we moved here from California in 1999.

INTERVIEWER: So what is your name?

NUÑEZ: Lucia Nuñez.

INTERVIEWER: And what is your responsibility, or what is your role in Madison?

NUÑEZ: I am the Director of Civil Rights for the City of Madison.

INTERVIEWER: And how many years have you been involved with that?

NUÑEZ: Since I've been here in 2006.

INTERVIEWER: And what other organizations have you been apart of besides the Department of Civil Rights?

NUÑEZ: Prior to the Department of Civil Rights I was the Administrator of Equal Rights Division for the State of Wisconsin, then Deputy Secretary for the Workforce Development and prior to that I was . . . of Dane County. And that's 00:02:00been my career here in Madison.

INTERVIEWER: So as far as you being in these positions, there has to have been some foundation to it. What have you done in your life to have gained these positions right now?

NUÑEZ: In terms of education or . . .

INTERVIEWER: I would say education or something as far as community involvement.

NUÑEZ: Well, in terms of my education I was a, well it used to be called Hispanic Studies, and a Political Science major, that was my undergrad, then for my international degree I have International Education, so there's been a lot of different things that I have done that sort of built up to where I'm at. The most crucial thing I've been involved in is education, I was a teacher, I was a Peace Corps volunteer, I've done a lot of community work around education so 00:03:00that's helped to build up where I'm at.

INTERVIEWER: And where does the passion for education stem from?

NUÑEZ: I'm the first from my family to get a college education and that's a huge piece. My mom has maybe a 5th grade education my dad an 8th grade. For our family's point of view, education was something that was valued. It wasn't valued for females as much as males, but none of my brothers went to college and I was the only one who did. That's been something that I've seen that is strong, and I would label myself as more of an educator more than an activist because an educator to me means it's something we can really use, especially in communities of colors, so to me education has been the driving force.

INTERVIEWER: I want to go back to when you said education was a less value for females. Can you touch a little on that with your experience?

NUÑEZ: It wasn't thought that I would even go to college, the common thought was . . . I would get married and that I wouldn't need a college education. And why would my father spend money on a college education when women didn't need it . . . that was sort of the common expression between my father's friends, by my mother's friends, what did I need to go to school for to learn to cook to clean house? Those were the things that were important, that was what was expected . . . was to become a mother and a wife.

INTERVIEWER: So what made you want to break away from the gender norms of your upbringing?

NUÑEZ: I think it was education again, it was teachers who looked at me and saw potential and pushed me that really motivated me to say, "Don't you want more?" That's one of the reasons I left the island and secretly applied to this boarding school in Massachusetts because I didn't want to continue to live in that kind of environment and wanted to get more out of my education. So that's why I left home at sixteen to go to this boarding school and get an education and go off to college . . . and it was people -- and it was usually teachers -- who said, "you need to apply to these schools," and, "have you thought about which colleges your going to?" I hadn't thought, my parents weren't asking those questions, it was my teachers who were.

INTERVIEWER: Now I was going to ask you that same question about your parents. Why didn't you feel there was enough support from them for you?

NUÑEZ: They didn't go to college so they had no concept as to what it means to apply to a school. They didn't have that experience, so they didn't take me to different schools to check out. They didn't understand that whole entire process. That wasn't expected, so therefore they didn't ask those questions.

INTERVIEWER: And as far as breaking away from those norms, as being a child and not following gender expectations of what your family and what your family's friends have all been brought up . . . What was it like for them hearing that you were leaving at sixteen and kind of starting your own journey?

NUÑEZ: Well my mom fell apart that's for sure, you know, that wasn't expected. A sixteen-year-old daughter does not leave home. My father was encouraging. It 00:07:00was that moment . . . he was the one who flew up with me to take me to school. Like I said I applied secretly. I got a scholarship and I told them. My mom was not happy. My dad wasn't at first and then he turned around and he was one of those people who did a lot to encourage me later and pushed me. Absolutely you should go to Peace Corps, and absolutely you should do a number of other things so it was interesting. That was the first time even though the common wisdom among him and all his friends was, "why are you wasting money on your daughter she's just going to get married?" He kind of turned. Neither one of my brothers was interested in school or education as I was, so I think he lived a little vicariously through me because he didn't get that kind of education and I think 00:08:00he should have. He's a very smart man that didn't have those opportunities.

INTERVIEWER: Why were you surprised?

NUÑEZ: Because the male. If I was raised by one of the most machista men on God's Earth it would be my father, so I didn't expect his support and he gave it to me -- even much more so than my mother. There were times in boarding school when I would do that hardest work I've ever done. It was incredibly challenging in a good way, but difficult, and mom would say things like, "come home don't worry about it, don't cry about getting bad grades, you know it's okay, just come home you don't have to worry about that," whereas my dad says, "good lesson, try harder next time," . . . you know he would be far more encouraging than my mom. It's not a judgment on her.

INTERVIEWER: So you're going to college, you're off to finding your own journey with your father's support your mother holding you back a little bit. What other supportive system did you find while you were going through this journey of education?

NUÑEZ: It's interesting cause when I first got to Connecticut College, which is very small, very liberal arts, that's one of those New England schools -- the surprising part of it is that it is very attuned to the kinds of color from there. There's a lot of support for Afro-American, Asian, Latinos and it's very few. It was 1,600 students the time I was there. And they did provide a great deal of support. There was a lot of connection. It was the first time I heard the word Hispanic. I didn't label myself Hispanic-Latina because I wasn't necessarily born in this country and I grew up outside looking in. In the islands, I am first and foremost Cuban, and in the Islands, I was a West Indian. Everybody had an identity, but nobody spoke of 'Hispanic Latino'. Hispanics in 1975, I never used that term for myself and so I walked into a school in New England and being labeled something that I didn't have that label, I considered myself Cuban or Cuban-American depending on what stage I was in. There were times I didn't want to be associated with being Cuban. I wanted to be known as Lucy Nunez, not Lucia Nuñez. It was easier to just integrate into the culture. You fight your own culture and part of it was associating it with my mother's traditional . . . she wanted me to be a good wife and mother with Cuban culture, so I spent a lot of time fighting those two things. I've learned to separate out some pieces of it and embraced what Cuban culture has to offer that isn't that traditional piece if that makes sense. So I actually walked into Connecticut College, a predominantly white school, and found a great deal of support for looking at what it meant to be Hispanic and understood all those pieces and the complexity of that.

I started to take -- that is where I ended up being a Hispanic Studies major coupled with another major looking at what is that? Not even looking at the language and kind of reclaiming the language cause most of us as immigrants, I never was taught Spanish. I spoke Spanish but I never learned to read, never learned to write the language properly, so that was a whole education. Never had read any literature from Latin or Spain, and so embraced all of that. That was a major awakening. What an incredibly rich cultures exist in this world not just Cuban culture, but there's so much more. I couldn't get enough of it so I was parched. That was incredibly rich and that was Connecticut College that was something that was offered there. That began a piece rooted in education and that's where I still believe how strong education is and be not just learning about your roots, but we've got so much and looking at one builds to another.

INTERVIEWER: So you go to Connecticut College. What affected you most about your political consciousness with all these things going on? How did you deal with different labels?

NUÑEZ: Those were labels that were put on me, they weren't labels I took on. I didn't learn much about Chicano Histories or Studies until much later. That was definitely not until East Coast -- I lived in California -- that I embraced a lot more of what that meant. It's taken a long time for me to think about what those labels mean. I look at 'Latino' or 'Latina' as more a label as 'Hispanic,' and I use those depending on when I want to make connections to others in this country. I've used that label we can all stand under. I still can't fight that I am Cuban. I am so uniquely Cuban. I am so uniquely Cuban and my understanding that piece, and understanding . . . living in this country has influenced me. I have an identity as being a Latina. I have an identity as being Cuban. I have an identity as being a lesbian. And I have an identity as being a Latina lesbian. They all stand alone and when combined they have a unique identity. It's interesting for me to play with all of these in terms of what does it mean and the politics behind it, but I can't separate them out.

INTERVIEWER: So you have multiple identities. What is it like to have that Cuban identity and also having in . . . California?

NUÑEZ: Before I moved to California, I taught in Massachusetts at a care center and it was a center for pregnant and parenting teens. Most of my girls were Puerto Rican so that was interesting experience there. Education being my key piece. This was a center for girls preparing to return to high school. Most had kids or were pregnant. There was a day care center on site. I was working with young women who were struggling with identity. It was the 1990's census and I brought a copy of the census and we started talking what does this mean. They started to mark off of how they labeled themselves and I had a woman say: "I'm Puerto Rican where do I put that?" . . . "Well there it is." . . . "Well I'm black, I'm not Puerto Rican." Then there was an argument. "You're Puerto Rican you were born there." "No, I got identified as black." All these girls were bringing different opinions about how to mark what it meant to be. "Well I'm white," so another marked 'white.' Another woman said "you're not white, you're Puerto Rican," . . . "No, I'm not my skin is white." It was a great discussion. Their national pride in the U.S. They look at us and how do I look at myself. It was an interesting process for me as I learned about my own identity. I've spent a lot of time working with students. They called me grenga. In their eyes I was Cuban. It's how you see yourself. It's so complex and those are the long-term struggles. There's a chemical reaction. It's not over yet.

INTERVIEWER: What was it like to go through those experiences of some Latino populations seeing you differently?

NUÑEZ: In California, I worked with teachers at Stanford. In California, classrooms in the early 1990's were 100 percent immigrant populations. There were very few classrooms. I haven't had that experience of any groups that don't want to work with me.

INTERVIEWER: So throughout your work in Massachusetts and California, did you ever encounter any other women who left home for the first time? What was it like to know others?

NUÑEZ: From sixteen-year-old girls who left Puerto Rico who were on their own, to incredible teachers in San Jose who separated from families for educational experiences. Education changes and separates families. That constant quest on how you reach back in your groups. I met lot of people. It's valuable in that way. That's not just Latinos. It's across the board. How do you maintain those connections?

INTERVIEWER: Where has your work began here?

NUÑEZ: Well, I came here in 1999, and I came here to take a job at Centro. We drove across country and we came to Madison. I didn't know there were so many Latinos in Madison. There was a huge boom. We would help them locate a job. It was family connections. The economy was great. When the economy goes we don't need those people. The Latino community prospered. I anticipate there will be more growth.

INTERVIEWER: How do you conceptualize your role for Latinos?

NUÑEZ: In terms of the Midwest, one of the things was educating people. I was amazed at how little knowledge people had of the Latino community. In California you could find the entire gamut. Here is what I don't understand. The University would call and say we need Latinos for a program. It was an odd connection. No, Hispanic is not a language. It was amazing interactions. People would call to help immigration. It was an environment I had not been in. Here it was so isolated it seemed that it surprised me. Why were they asking these questions? It was a lack of knowledge. It was just surprising.

INTERVIEWER: What kind of feeling did it trigger?

NUÑEZ: I've said to people not to pick me not as a token, but as a Latina. Don't invite me to the table just to invite me to the table. Why do you really want me? What are you going to do different? Identity is very emotional. You develop a shell deep inside and you have to share that identity so it doesn't hurt.

INTERVIEWER: What are some other areas you've addressed?

NUÑEZ: At the time I was appointed by Governor Doyle to be Deputy Secretary of Workforce Development. I learned a lot from that. That was crucial years to figure out a lot of things. How government worked. Not just in this community, but everywhere. In Milwaukee, the Latino community in Milwaukee. It was fascinating in Green Bay and Appleton. The one or two Latinos would be excited to see me. There was a whole lot going on in Green Bay. It was great to expand in Wisconsin. My identity took a back seat. What does that mean? I'm not done processing that. It was a good experience for . . . working in the equal rights gave great views and the administration processes set up leading to Latino activism. The issue of equal rights is an interesting thing. It's been fifty years. What does that mean for civil rights? There's been a lot of tension between the Latino and African-American community. How do we begin to resolve that? There's a lot of serious issues that get distracted.

INTERVIEWER: What are some important highlights you remember as for you being here in the Madison community?

NUÑEZ: I think leadership has many styles. What does leadership mean? What does it mean for women and men? We need to explore that a lot. There are a lot of gender differences between genders in leadership. It makes a difference in how we gain power? We need to open up doors on how were greeted and we need to learn different styles in order to get things accomplished.

INTERVIEWER: And how would you define leadership?

NUÑEZ: I learned from my mom and dad that you roll up your sleeves and you can do everything in the organization. That's gotten me in trouble. You shouldn't be mixing it up with the lower people. Just because I'm the director doesn't make me different from anyone else. You should act a certain way because you made it to that position. That's not me. I gather information then I create an agenda.

INTERVIEWER: Have you experienced differences in gender expectations?

NUÑEZ: Throughout. They were opposed, and I've encountered that. Oh yeah. That's a constant challenge. I'm capable of doing the job and hopefully prove them wrong. It is a challenge. People are always going to say. My belief is my work is proof enough.

INTERVIEWER: Now what does it mean for you to be a Latina Lesbian in a leadership role in Madison?

NUÑEZ: Gay marriage wouldn't be as far as I thought. So it's kind of an exciting time. So it's an interesting place to be. You can tell when people figure it out. So it is fascinating. The greatest challenge is the male-dominated sports culture. It's a world that I'm not familiar with. It's all about sports. We have to have a five minute sports talk then we'll get into the issues. It's learning a whole new language. I've traveled and it's my newest experience and it's fascinating to walk into that world.

INTERVIEWER: So it's like constant processes and refraining who you are. What is the current state of "Lucia"?

NUÑEZ: Lots of things. I'm a pancreatic cancer survivor which is unheard of. My brother passed away with the same cancer. That's a new identity and something that changes the way you look at things, and the importance of things, what I need to think about. Just because you're cancer free, very few reach the 5 year mark. I expect it will come back. Then what does that mean? How unbelievably precious my time is. So that's completely changed. It may sound bizarre but I'm slowing down. I don't have a smart phone. I need to shut that down and write letters again. There's something that slows you down and it's something I've had to do facing mortality. So that's a difference. I've learned to embroider. I've made peace with my mom. I'm so glad she taught me all those womanly arts because they're a huge part of my piece.

INTERVIEWER: I wonder if you're advice to other Latino activists would be "to not forget your roots?" What would be a message from you?

NUÑEZ: Oh, don't forget your faith, at least what I had. And yes there's so much to strive for. I cook Cuban food and I sell it at an auction to the PGG. So it's great we put on a Cuban dinner for 10 people, but it's great and who would have thought I would be doing that.

INTERVIEWER: How would you define Lucia Nuñez?

NUÑEZ: You can't. Constantly changing, constantly evolving. I'm Cuban, but constantly changing. I've reread . . . we are a new race. There's so much other Latin American countries that I love. On CNN, there's two young Korean guys driving old cars with hydraulics. I love what used to be Korea is now mixing with Mexican communities.

INTERVIEWER: Are there any battles you had to take with the Latino community . . . any agendas you had to push? Any experience with that?

NUÑEZ: With the school district, with that explosion I was talking about, school districts weren't ready for that. We spent a lot of time educating. Art spent a lot of time listening. He didn't see me as a token. He was listening to what I was saying. I remember marching at the Latino immigrant rally from West Wash to the Capitol and that was significant. You have to understand the immigration issue is so complex. It was many of the conversation working with employers to understand immigration. Working with police. People have become fearful of calling the police with fear of deportation. A lot of young women who were brave. Working with those young women these traffickers had on these young women.

INTERVIEWER: You also touched on how there's conflict between the African American community and Latino community. How did you deal with conflicts like that?

NUÑEZ: Always try to find common ground. We have common experiences. How do we work with that? Trying to find leaders who can talk that we both have experience in.

INTERVIEWER: What does it mean for you to work in a predominantly white Madison? Were there any strategies to get past it?

NUÑEZ: When I'm in a good mood, it's an experience. I'm going to learn a new language. It's isolating. I have to find things that keep me who I am.

INTERVIEWER: Is there anything specific you were coping with?

NUÑEZ: It's numerous things. It's finding someone else who gave the perspective of whatever something was wrong with that meeting. So there are numerous strategies. Tapping into friends. Just that kind of support. I understand I went through it. You have to find strategies. We all have identity. I don't care who we are. We all have cultural identities of who we are.