Interview with Reuben K. Harpole, Jr., June 23, 2015, Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Temeka Williams: For the record, today is Tuesday, June 23rd. And we're getting started at 11:59 a.m. My name is Temeka Williams. I am interviewing our oral historian, Mr. Reuben Harpole, Jr. And he is a retired social activist and educator. And this is for the project titled "Oral Histories on Plant Closings in Milwaukee."

Alrighty, so I feel like I got a little preview. And I did do a little research, but why don't you go ahead and just start by telling me a little bit more about yourself. Like where you were born, you know, your family and where you grew up in particular here.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Okay. I was born in Milwaukee at the County Hospital, September the 4th, 1934. And I first lived on Fourth and Galena, you know in an 00:01:00apartment. And with my mother and father. Then I moved in with my grandfather at 807 West Sumner Street, where I mostly grew up. My grandfather had a business.

He had a coal business where he would deliver tons of coal into various homes in the neighborhood. And later he had bicycles. He had the Johnson little bicycle for the kids in the neighborhood. He had about thirty-some bikes in the yard. And the kids could rent those bicycles for 25 cents an hour or 50 cents for three hours.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: And then during the Memorial Day parade downtown, my grandfather would have the bicycles all decorated in different colors on the wheels. And the young people in the neighborhood, about 30 of them, would have 00:02:00sailor hats on. And he had a 1937 Buick limousine car that my mother used to drive around when she was younger. And -- but in the parade, he would drive the car in the parade.

And I would sit in the back seat. And it had front seats. And then around the front seats he had extra seats for other people. I was a seven passenger car instead of a four passenger, seven. And then had a window that rolled up between the back and the front. And then he had a microphone in the back. And I used to get the mike and talk with him in the front seat. And then stick my head out the window as he was rolling down Wisconsin Avenue, and 30 bicycles behind me.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: So it was a lot of fun.

Temeka Williams: Alright, that sounds great.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: And then my grandfather put a merry-go-round in our front yard. So that myself and my two sisters could have fun in the house and we 00:03:00wouldn't have to go anywhere, we'd just have fun around our own house. And then later he had a chicken coop and we used to sell chickens to the neighbors. And sometimes I would have to go out and kill the chicken so my grandmother could boil the chicken and take the hair off.

And that used to upset me because I'd have to take the chicken's head and wring it right off. And I'd see the chicken flopping on the ground. That was horrible for me.

Temeka Williams: I'm sorry. It sounds like your grandfather had a strong impact on you and had a lot of businesses as well.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Yes, he was busy. He had a third grade education, but he had a brilliant mind for mathematics. And in fact, how he learned mathematics, he said he had a friend that went to school in the South. But he didn't go to school, but his friend would come home and teach him everything that he had 00:04:00learned in school. And he learned in the fields, the cotton fields.

Temeka Williams: Okay, and how about yourself? Where was your education based?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Well, I -- while I was at 807 West Sumner Street, I went to Ninth Street School, which was just north of where we live. It was on Ninth and Walnut. And Sumner Street was just south of Walnut. So I went to Ninth Street School, and then to Roosevelt Junior High School. And then from there I went to North Division High School. So I'm a Blue Devil.

Temeka Williams: I'm a Blue Devil too, but through Duke. Not through Wisconsin. So after you graduated high school, what did you move on to doing next?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Well, after I graduated from high school, I was working for a little bit. I worked at American Can Company. And then worked at the Milwaukee Post Office for a while. And prior to -- before graduating from high 00:05:00school, while I was in high school from the ninth or tenth grade I worked for Stark's, S-T-A-R-K apostrophe S, General Cleaners. And I was 14 years old when I started doing that.

And because I was working late at night cleaning up offices and so forth, when I would get to school sometimes I'd fall asleep. So I ended up failing a number -- we had six-week courses. And then I'd fail a couple times. And then toward the end of the semester when I'd see that I was going to fail, I would hurry up and study and pass.

Temeka Williams: Oh, my goodness.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: That happened to me with Chemistry. And I ended up loving chemistry. And I'd get high grades in chemistry. After I learned how to -- I memorized the different --

Temeka Williams: Table of Elements? Periodic?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Elements. And then I memorized how many atoms and so forth they have. So I could really use the valence, the concept of valence and put together elements. Like salt.

Temeka Williams: Okay, so why did you -- what made you decide to work while you were in high school?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Well, we were a poor family. And I had to work to keep money in my pocket.

Temeka Williams: Okay, so to make sure you were self-sufficient?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: That was a great job. In fact, I would have probably been the owner of the shop. But I my mother thought that the guy was cheating me. But he wasn't. He was putting up money so that I would have a -- what do you call it, a --

Temeka Williams: College fund?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: It was an endowment.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: She thought he was taking money from me, he wasn't. He was putting it in the savings for me.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: She frustrated him. And then that's how I lost my job. He said I don't want to be bothered with all that. But I learned quite a bit from him.

Temeka Williams: Okay. And how about your own family? How many -- your wife is here?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: No, that came later. After I was going to school after, MATC, you know, I was studying Chemistry. And while I was in the Chemistry class, I had two friends that -- Arthur Jean and Gordon Harris. And so one day those guys came to me and said hey, I have a young lady I'd like for you to meet. She's attending Marquette University. So I said no, I already have a girlfriend. I don't want to be --

Temeka Williams: Mm-hmm?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: So they kept bugging me when we'd have laboratories and so, they kept up, hey man, we still want you to meet this -- and so eventually I gave in and said okay, I'll just meet her, that's it. And so I had another 00:08:00friend. I don't know if you've ever heard of Shirley Caesar? She's a gospel singer. And in fact the greatest in the country right now. And she had a brother named Julius Caesar.

And so he and I would talk and I'd say, hey, man, I want you to meet somebody. Because I didn't want to meet her. And he was very articulate himself. So I went over to O'Donnell Hall where she was living. And asked the front desk for Mildred Cohen, that was her maiden name. And they said, "Who shall we say is calling?" So I said, "Julius Caesar." So when I did that, her whole dormitory exploded. Then she came down and met him.

But she didn't like him.

Temeka Williams: Well, that worked out to your benefit then, right?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Yes, well, then later after I finished school, I was 00:09:00working -- 1956, I got called to the Army.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: But we were not close to each other then. Because she had gone off to another school. Howard University.

Temeka Williams: Oh, she left Wisconsin, okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: And then when I got called I was sent to San Antonio, Texas for basic training in healthcare. And one day while I was in the barracks, they had loudspeakers around, guy speaking said, "Harpole." And I said what? Guys always try to be tough, you know?

So they said, "Telephone." So I said who knows I'm down here? Because I didn't tell no one I was going in the Army. And so when I got on the phone, I said 00:10:00hello. And then she said -- she didn't answer. She just said one question, she said, "What are you going to do?"

Temeka Williams: Okay, what did you tell her?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: I was so shook that -- I recognized her voice. I was so shook up that she had found me. I said, "How did you get my number?"

Temeka Williams: And the rest is history, then?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: She said -- never mind. So then I proposed to her over the phone.

Temeka Williams: Wow.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: February 14, 1957. And I couldn't marry her until I got back out of the Army. Because they shipped me over to Korea. I didn't know I was going over there, but she did. Because they wouldn't tell you, you know, where you're going. If you're going to Germany or you're going to Korea or you're going to England, or whatever. But she had found out. I didn't know, 00:11:00because she's dug in law and she knew how to go and find out this stuff.

And so finally I served my term in Korea. And in 1957 got out. And we got married in 1959. So I kept my word.

Temeka Williams: And still keeping your word today.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: We got married, and after about three years we had our first child. And then we had a second child, and a third child. First child lived 26 days and passed.

Temeka Williams: I'm sorry to hear that.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: And then the second one is still alive. And the third one's still alive.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: The third one was a boy. And he ended up getting married and having a couple of children. My daughter's still single.

Temeka Williams: Okay. And so when you came back and were raising your children, how did that -- how did things in Milwaukee change around that time?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Well, what happened was, my wife after we got married, we 00:12:00moved back to Milwaukee. And got an apartment at 2958 North Second Street. And we were across the street from Frank P. Zeidler, who was the mayor of the city at the time. And so things started changing then, that was 1959, 1960. Then they started building an expressway. Around 1960.

And that expressway removed 8,500 families from the center of the city. You see, prior to that time we had a mayor, Maier. Well, no, later. After Frank P. Zeidler was mayor, then Mayor Maier turned over to mayor. Frank started clearing out so-called poverty areas. And it was urban renewal, or urban removal. Because he moved a lot of families away. And that killed Third Street.

Because there was a shopping center on Third Street. And that killed that. And 00:13:00then it killed some of the places downtown. And then I had to work, so I had a job at American Can Company. And I was working there and I was able to go back to the post office. Because I was drafted into the Army, for instance, so they had a relationship that said returned soldiers could get their job back.

So I got my job back. So for our first few years of marriage, I worked two jobs.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: That was 16 hours a day, you know? And I hung onto that. And then the corporations started closing during that period of time. One of the places that my grandfather worked for, he was a crane operator at Wisconsin Gates Iron Foundry. And that went out. And then International Harvester, which 00:14:00employed thousands of people, they closed.

And then Rexnord closed. And then --

Temeka Williams: You said the record stores?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Rexnord, nord, N-O-R-D.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: And then it was called Caterpillar, Inc. Then Allis-Chalmers, huge -- Allis-Chalmers at one time had 22,000 people working for them. They were the largest manufacturing -- largest employers in the state of Wisconsin.

Temeka Williams: So what would you say, how did you notice that there were so many closings going on? Was it because of your grandfather, as you said? Or what?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: No, during that period of time I was going to MATC. And I didn't pay any attention to that. And where I really paid attention to it, when I started working, I was at the Urban League. And the Urban League placed me in 00:15:00charge of Area 7, which was around Second and Berwyn . Which is around where I lived. I lived at 2958 North Second Street. Prior to that time I lived at 2821 North Second Street. Right across the street. And we had a fantastic neighborhood.

And I was the one that was supposed to pull everything together. And we were attending at Catholic Church that was there, St. Elizabeth, which is now Martin de Porres. And because the expressway had moved a lot of African-Americans out of the so-called ghetto into this area and into other areas going north and northwest, then the people did not want to accept the African-Americans who were going there. And some of them would turn around in their seats and say, why don't you go to your own church? You know, so this is embarrassing.

So as the coordinator of the neighborhood, we held a series of meetings called "Hello, Neighbor." And we had an attorney in Milwaukee named Attorney Dorsey, 00:16:00James Dorsey. Brilliant. And James Dorsey had tried to run for alderman for many times. And he was always defeated by a white guy. So James Dorsey knew what we were trying to do. And he would always give me about ten or fifteen dollars so I could buy little gifts so the people would not be hungry and so forth.

And we did that for a number of years. Then finally I met -- I asked Frank P. Zeidler, I said, "Frank, is there someone at the University that could really help us with all these problems that were going on?" He said, yes, there's a guy by the name of Bud Bloomberg . He said, go over and talk with him and maybe he could give you some help. So I went over to Bud Bloomberg's and he said, I'm sorry. Bud Bloomberg was a genius, actually. And he says, I'm sorry, I'm planning to get out of here. I'm going to California. And so he said there's another young professor in Milwaukee.

And his name is Belden Paulson. He says, why don't you go over and talk with him? So it was a white guy that was with me, and so we went over to Mr. Paulson's house, who was at Newman. And I think that -- what street was that? Dowman and Newman Ave, right on the corner of Dowman and Newman. And we were sitting there talking. And so Belden said to me, "Look, I have to go to Brazil for a project.

And so when I come back from Brazil, then you and I can sit down and we can see what we can do in your area."

Temeka Williams: This was prior to the plant closings, right? This was --

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: No, during.

Temeka Williams: This was during that time?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Yes, the plant closings has taken place.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: So chaos was going on. Yes. And in fact, Inland Steel had 00:18:00started a program called "Inroads." And that's still going. And there was a guy running it, Tubar. But the guy that started the Inroads program had approached myself to be the director. And I didn't want it. Because I was already working with a group at Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin called College Summer Prep.

And that was a fabulous program. We took a hundred and five boys out there and helped them to become well-developed. Because we were working with Jesuit priests as teachers. And also Milwaukee public school teachers. To teach the young men how to be men, and how to study, and how to soar. And out of that project came many different great things. We got two doctors out of it, medical doctors. One's running the medical clinic in Meridian, Mississippi now. Ronnye Purvis. And then Derek Gray is practicing medicine somewhere.

And one young man that was 12 years old, we took him out there, he's now a full professor at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor. His name is David Ardis. Got his PhD at Stanford, he's done a year in Oxford, England. Then came back and had Yale and University of Michigan fighting over him.

Temeka Williams: So it sounds like you got pulled in a lot of different directions and got in more influential in a lot of people. How did you kind of manage that during this time?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Well, after I -- when I was area manager of this area, I met -- I told you I went over and met Dr. Paulson. And then we started working through the area. And then that St. Elizabeth Church had a school. It was called St. Elizabeth Elementary School. And then they, the parents in that area said, we'd like to run our own school.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: And so the Catholic Diocese was going to close the school. 00:20:00So instead of closing the school, they gave the parents $250,000 and said, you all can run the whole school yourself. And then my wife ended up becoming principal of the school.

Temeka Williams: Oh, wow.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Yes. And so I was still working in the neighborhood. And the school was named Harambee because they knew that Dr. Kenya from Kenya -- oh, I forgot his name, had used that word to organize the tribes to overthrow the British.

Mildred Harpole: Let's pull together. It means, "Let's pull together."

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: That's what it means, yes. But I'm saying this king of Kenya used that to pull tribes together to overthrow the British. And so the students at Harambee wanted that to be their school. Because they wanted to pull together, and they did. And the parents did. And I did continue to work 00:21:00in the neighborhood. And we called the whole neighborhood Harambee.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: The school was named Harambee. Then we called the neighborhood Harambee. And it was 700 and some-odd blocks in the neighborhood.

Mildred Harpole: A.O. Smith had provided middle-class wages and income.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: For years.

Mildred Harpole: For years. So when A.O. Smith began to close down, it brought about the of poverty. Because people up until that time were buying houses, taking care of their property, etcetera, etcetera. So when they closed, that was a huge --

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Blow.

Temeka Williams: Impact on the school?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: And Allis-Chalmers, the same way.

Mildred Harpole: And the community. People, those who had paid off their houses were in better shape than those who were trying to pay off their houses. And so 00:22:00they went into default. Or they weren't able to keep the middle class standards. So the neighborhoods went down.

Temeka Williams: And what was the political and community response while the neighborhoods were going down? What was the political and community response when the neighborhoods were going down?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: What would you say? They didn't pay any attention to it? There was no political leadership. Because James Dorsey was never allowed to get in there. So the first person that was able to get in there was Vel Phillips. And of course you know about her, right?

Temeka Williams: I'm new to Milwaukee, so you can educate me as much as you'd like.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Oh, it's a pleasure. She was the first Black, she was the first Black Alderman, period. Black or female in the city's history. And it's 00:23:00because of her that people began to get organized. And there was a white priest by the name of Father James Groppi. In fact, his picture's back there.

Temeka Williams: Yes, I read about him here.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Who organized a church called--

Mildred Harpole: Saint Boniface?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Saint Boniface, which was right behind North Division High School, which was my high school. And one day because things were so bad, Groppi led -- he had a youth group, NAACP youth group that he was advisor to. And they decided to walk out of the high school. And right across the street was an Episcopal church. And when that happened, Father Groppi became known 00:24:00throughout the entire city.

Because the newspapers had a story, because here was a white priest leading Black youth, protesting, okay? And so then one of the reasons was that this lady was trying to get open housing going, so the Black folks could buy houses and so forth. And the city kept resisting.

The mayor and all the aldermen kept resisting. And so July 30, 1967, riots broke out. From Second and Wisconsin Avenue up until King Drive, or Third Street at the time. And when that happened, the mayor called martial law and closed the city down. No one could leave or come into the city during a certain 00:25:00period of time because they claimed that it was too dangerous.

So after that happened -- and the reason why it happened, when that happened, then Groppi and the commandoes started marching. And thousands of people began to march into Wauwatosa. Or to the south, cross the Sixteenth Street viaduct. And usually the neighborhoods on the south side were all white. And the neighborhoods in Wauwatosa were all white. So when the African-Americans and whites who believed in open housing started marching, so as to force -- they were trying to force the mayor and the common counselor to set an open housing law.

And they would -- people, the whites would throw bricks and spit on the folks and call them names as they were crossing the bridge, or as they were going into 00:26:00Wauwatosa. And so after a period of violence, the bill passed. The mayor had said he didn't want to pass open housing just in Milwaukee, but he wanted all 19 districts, suburban districts around him to pass the open housing also.

So that he wouldn't lose people in the Milwaukee area, and the people in the suburban area would continue to be white.

Well, that was his excuse. However, that did occur and finally they did pass the open housing bill, but after 28 days of marching.

Mildred Harpole: Also, the plants -- not all but some of the plants moved as a result of this.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Mildred Harpole: But the ones that they made were not hiring the neighborhood 00:27:00black people. So if you could have a balance between companies that stayed to hire the black people, then I think the communities could have been saved somewhat.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Mildred Harpole: But they didn't offer job opportunities for the community people. And so consequently the people, you know, had to do the best they could to survive. Some went on welfare, some didn't. Some turned to crime. And it was just a gradual, so when crime rose and vacancies and foreclosed houses and all of that came about, the plants began to close. To move out, yes.

Because their employees, mostly white, didn't want to come into the depressed neighborhood.

Temeka Williams: So how did the communities feel about the white response to them? You mentioned especially at the churches, too. Getting spit at, and --

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Community was very tight. They didn't care what whites thought about themselves, they cared about what they thought about themselves. And so the churches were very strong during that period of time. And especially the Holderness churches. The Church of God in Christ, , the apostolic church. It was very strong. Then the Baptists, and the AME Church. The AME Church was the oldest Black church in the state. It was founded on Fourth and Kilburn. And it's still going, it's at 1616 West Atkinson Avenue now. St. Mark's AME Church.

Mildred Harpole: But I'd say in response to your question, several of the ministers, you know, joined in the protests. And they set up food pantries. They set up job assistance programs. Only to be frustrated, even till this day. Black contractors, Black business people do not have equal opportunity to city jobs or city opportunities, economic opportunities. And they have whites even coming from out of state or other parts of the state to come in.

Temeka Williams: Instead of people that are already here?

Mildred Harpole: That are indigenous to this community.

Temeka Williams: Why is it that to this day they're still not able to gain traction?

Mildred Harpole: We don't have the --

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: That's not true.

Mildred Harpole: What?

Temeka Williams: That's not true?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: They have a possibility of gaining, they have a great possibility. And the reason why, if you would check --

Temeka Williams: I think we're both interested to know.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: The state has a law that says 5% of all state purchasing should go to African-Americans. And if there are laws getting to the point where they're 5% of the state's purchasing power going to the African-American community --

Mildred Harpole: It hasn't gone there yet.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: But it's still there. Huh?

Mildred Harpole: It hasn't gone there yet. The state contracts, they are not providing 5% to minorities.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Of state purchasing. Not the contracts. Contracts are different. There was a law that passed by the federal government that the Department of Transportation should spend not less than 10% on minority contractors. And they haven't met that. And the office for that is at 6150 West Fond Du Lac Avenue, still. They've been there for close to 30 years. And African Americans passing the place, think that you're going to get your license from there, no, it's for contracts.

But if the brothers would develop their power, there would be money there for them.

Mildred Harpole: Well, I think the most salient point is, companies like Caterpillar, A.O. Smith, Rexnord --

Temeka Williams: Pfister?

Mildred Harpole: Albie's plant, what was the name of that?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Oshkosh Trucking?

Mildred Harpole: No, no. Albie's.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Oh, Albatrastow .

Mildred Harpole: Albatrastow and what was that other company? When they closed --

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Christian Bolt .

Mildred Harpole: They were employers, a majority of black community. And they gave living wages--

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Many of them couldn't read or write.

Mildred Harpole: And you didn't have to be a skilled laborer. Like he said, some of them couldn't read and write. However, they were able to make enough money --

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: To send their kids to school.

Mildred Harpole: To send their kids to school, to afford a house, etcetera, etcetera. So when these companies closed and left them out hanging. And the government, you know, couldn't, wouldn’t, didn't, you know, supply the 00:33:00necessary support for people to get back on their feet.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

<< Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Well, I was working at the Milwaukee Star newspaper, which was one of the greatest newspapers in the country at the time. In fact, we took first place in the nation of all the black newspapers in the country. And one day we got a telephone call in the office. We were on Third Street, before Martin Luther King Drive.

And they said, can you send somebody over here? We've got a wildcat strike going on at Albatrastow . A wildcat strike meant that the brothers had walked off the job. And the management did not know why. And the management was out there trying to pull the hides out of the -- you know, the hides used to soak in the, they have something that would take the hair off it. And if the management had never done that before, and they were trying to take the cowhides out of the 00:34:00-- and they were burning their arms and stuff.

So they called and panicked. And so the office sent me over there to try to find out what was wrong, why was -- because they had a no-strike clause, wildcat strike clause in their contract. And so the brothers were shooting at the superintendent, running up Canal Street. So they asked me to go and then find out what was going on.

Temeka Williams: Yes, I read that you were very influential. How --

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: When, I wasn’t influential, they just were panicking and they had no other choice. And they needed some help. So they called the black newspaper. And the black newspaper, it wasn't because I had any skills, they just sent me, they didn't have any one else to send, they sent me over there. And I searched around for about two or three weeks. And finally I found out 00:35:00what had happened. The company had done a job search.

And they had changed the formula for paying the brothers. And the brothers thought that the superintendent had stolen their money from them, and they were going to kill him.

Temeka Williams: Uh-oh.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: And so when we found that out, what had happened was, you know, Falk and the other guy that was there had placed a sign up by the checkout, you know, and the brothers couldn't read. So I found out that they had a reading problem. So there was a lady up on Green Bay Avenue that was a fantastic restaurant. So I had the company to change -- because they were cooking, you know, for white folks. And I had them bring this lady in so she 00:36:00could cook greens and corn bread and black-eyed peas.

So that kind of settled things down for a little bit. And then I went out and found some people that could teach reading. And we cut off part of the cafeteria in the Albatrastow company. To teach the men there how to read. And one day, Ragsdale came in and said to the lady who was like the receptionist when you walk in the door, he said finally, I used to see my name up on the bus, and I didn't know what they were saying behind my name. So finally I was able to read it. She burst out, started crying. And then the young lady that was a student at Rufus King High School was her sister. She ended up going back to school and becoming a journalist. And she started the first African-American public relations firm.

She's now in Virginia, but her brother's still here in Milwaukee, you know? And so after that we found out that the brothers, that they were not treating the men properly. So some of their equipment wasn't there, they had missing gloves. And they still had to pull those hides out of the lime. So they'd have a long stick with a hook on it and they'd pull it off and they'd throw the hide across a machine and pull the hair off.

I found this out, that they used the hair to make glue. And then they used the hoof of the cows for Jell-O. So they were using everything on that cow to make money. And then finally the management decided to do things right, so they improved the area.

Temeka Williams: Okay. What kind of improvements did they make?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: They fixed it so it would be easier to take the hair off the cow hides.

Mildred Harpole: And they had a reading program in the .

Temeka Williams: Right.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: And they had the reading program, and they had the cafeteria up there. And the management still remembers the cafeteria, it's been years.

Mildred Harpole: And they had a scholarship program for the children.

Temeka Williams: Okay. And I know you both played a significant role in education. How did education change over that time? Was there -- I guess maybe I should ask what was done in addition to the reading program to encourage that growth?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: I'm trying to understand you.

Temeka Williams: So you said that the reading program made a difference. What else was done to build upon that? Maybe that's a better way to put the question.

Mildred Harpole: made the environment more amenable for the employees.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Well the management changed. They changed the environment.

And this hadn't happened before. So, you know, they came to work and they were 00:39:00in a better environment. We made them feel better. And then the scholarship for their children. All of this contributed to their quality of life.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Right. And I'm still in touch with the Trostels.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: They live in Minneapolis now. And their company's still going. They had a company down in Lake Geneva, they had one in Michigan, and one in Tennessee somewhere. Then they had the sales people sell it, like the leather, all over the world. It's located in New York.

Temeka Williams: So that company actually maintained its presence here, is what I --

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Not here.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: No --

Temeka Williams: Oh, they still moved away?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: There's a beer company making beer in their plant on Canal Street.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: But their company did not move because they located someplace else.

Temeka Williams: Okay, and that ties back to what you were saying earlier when 00:40:00they fought for the right to have the open neighborhoods, they were one of the companies that moved to a different area so that they wouldn't have to deal with those changes, is that correct?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: No, uh-uh.

Mildred Harpole: No, that was -- that company, it was -- I'm trying to think of the name of the company.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: International Harvester took a lot of people out of here.

Mildred Harpole: Right.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: International Harvester.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: And then Allis-Chalmers retired a lot of people. Allis-Chalmers was angry with the union. Because the union forced them to pay high wages to everyone. And everyone didn't have the same kind of skills. And that's when one of the people that we knew was an attorney for them. They were sending him all over the world, you know, the one that died. So they found out 00:41:00that they were only making five or ten percent profit. When they could have invested in stocks and bonds and made 15% profit. And they decided to close the place down.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Because they weren't making enough profit.

Temeka Williams: So what, at this point, what else do you think could have been done to improve? What other things do you think they could have done to improve the opportunities for these communities?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Well, education has always been the key. And it has proven -- and it's not just education where you go and get an A. But it's learning how to do something. So that you become in demand for your skills. Now the big thing now is high tech. So if you don't know how to work with the computer, you almost lost.

So that's the big thing.

Mildred Harpole: I think one of the most debilitating results has been that children were growing up now in homes where no one was employed. Their neighbors, they didn't have role models that could encourage them to stay in school. Stay in school for what, you know?

There were people around them who were unemployed who were just hanging around. Many of the men vacated the home. And they had single parents. And they didn't have the neighborhood watch we used to have.

Temeka Williams: Mm-hmm, right.

Mildred Harpole: The neighborhood used to be closely knit. And it was like, oh, 00:43:00good, they’re cold. And they'd have like neighborhood watch. And if I were doing something wrong, my neighbor would, you know, feel free to chastise me.

Or to tell my parents or whatever. But I think that taking the economic base away destroyed the cohesiveness of the neighborhood. And the family. Because children didn't have anyone to look up to now. The fathers or mothers, whoever, the head of their families would turn to alcohol or drugs of other sorts.

They lost hope. And the housing declined, the neighborhoods declined. Just, you know, bad. So that's what we have now.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Mildred Harpole: Oh my goodness, thank you.

Temeka Williams: We actually still have plenty more time. We have -- well, I should say --

Clayborn Benson?: Should we take a pause a minute?

Temeka Williams: Okay, pause? Let's do that. Alright, we're back to recording? Yes, okay. Well, and actually we covered a lot of ground about the plant closings and how they impacted families in the community. But overall, was there anything that you guys really want people to know about the -- that we didn't cover?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Yes.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: There was a period of time in Milwaukee when African-Americans wanted to start their own businesses. That's after the period of time which I grew up where a lot of African-Americans had their own businesses.

Barbershops, cleaning businesses, bandbox cleaners and so forth. And King, King Cleaner. But this group, Catharo Brown, started a plastic injection molding 00:45:00company. And then we had a young man by the name of Irv Palmer who was working for Allis-Chalmers as an engineer.

And for a couple other companies who decided that he wanted to start his own engineering building. He was one of 400 engineers to design the Columbia space ship. And he was living in Milwaukee. And he started Central Manufacturing Company, which was located at 3901 North Second Street. And then he started Manutec, which was at 2450 West Hampton Street.

And they cut steel, and he made mostly all of the metal bridges along the 00:46:00expressway. He had that contract. And companies, he had to go outside of the city of Milwaukee to get contracts. I helped get him a contract with Oshkosh Trucking. Because they had billions of dollars, building armored cars for the Army and so forth, in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. But yet he was getting -- having some progress with Caterpillar, getting contracts from Caterpillar, Wisconsin. And so he got a contract with them and the people who were giving him a contract said, we're going to give you about three million dollars' worth of work per year, so you're going to have to stock up on steel in order to handle the job.

And they helped him to get the steel. But then they got some new people that would give out contracts and had just graduated from college, they got them into the office. And then they cut it. They gave the contracts to their friends. And that threw him into bankruptcy. And he had to leave the city. And the other man that started his own company, Townsend. Townsend had worked with a plastic injection molding company up in the northern part of Milwaukee. And he had his company on about 25th and Beloit. And he couldn't get any contracts. So he left and went to Tennessee. And so that would have been two great manufacturing -- Irv Palmer was hiring young men right out of prison. And he 00:48:00said, all I want you to do is to listen and learn. And he said, I don't care what your background is. And he hired -- one guy stayed with him for a number of years. And making good money.

Temeka Williams: So when these people left and the opportunities that they were going to create went away, how did that impact the community?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Say it again?

Temeka Williams: How did it impact the community when these people that had, you know --

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: A lot of people lost their jobs.

Temeka Williams: Mm-hmm, did they leave as well?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: No, some of them are still around. In fact, Irv's son got another job. One of his sons -- he had opened up three manufacturing companies. And one was being run by his son. And so I don't know what happened to that one. But the other son actually bought a house here and finished UWM in school. And so they're around, he got married. And so they're around. And they're 00:49:00making it because they're skillful. One son had a degree in manufacturing, so he would know how to set up a company.

From MATC. So the city lost a great leader in business to Florida. Because that's where he and his wife are at now.

Temeka Williams: Okay, and I know you guys mentioned that a lot of people went on welfare and whatnot. But there was also an increase in crime that happened.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Hmm?

Temeka Williams: I said there was also the increase in crime that happened. So what has been done to stop that or slow that?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Nothing.

Mildred Harpole: Well, I don't know, the city allegedly has designated an area 00:50:00in which -- Habit for Humanity joined forces. And they have constructed new houses. Or they have offered these houses, foreclosed houses for sale at a reasonable price, and so forth.

Trying to build up the neighborhood. However, the crime is just out of control. And the schools are seeing the results of that.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Mildred Harpole: We have children who are coming to school without any motivation. Some. Too many. And they have security in the schools which in some cases is to no avail.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Well, there are a number of people that are doing a great thing. One guy is -- Andre Ellis.

Mildred Harpole: Oh, yes.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Working with about a hundred young people, doing a great job.

Mildred Harpole: Running Rebels.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Huh?

Mildred Harpole: Running Rebels.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Running Rebels, doing fabulous work. The Urban Underground is doing fabulous work -- then there's Brewster, super guy working with young people.

Mildred Harpole: Boys and Girls Club.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Hmm?

Mildred Harpole: Boys and Girls Club.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Oh, the Boys and Girls Club. They're all working, and so there's a number of people that are working doing a great job. Earl Ingram has about 800 young men that he's working with. And the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity has something called Beautillion helping the young people understand who they are. That's a super program. They stopped from -- they didn't have a 00:52:00Beautillion this year.

Because they wanted to start younger, they wanted to start with the 11th graders instead of seniors. And then so that will be started next year. The Kappas have scholarships. And there's a number of people that's working with the young people with scholarships. AKA's are working with a lot of young people. They have what's called -- and then there's, trying to think of the name of that group, Mildred?

The ones that AKAs, the young people that they work with?

Mildred Harpole: The AKA's?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Top Ladies of Distinction. So it's a whole series of people that are working with our young people.

Mildred Harpole: Okay, yes. But there's a whole 'nother group that's not being 00:53:00touched by anybody, you know?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: We need more volunteers.

Mildred Harpole: We need more role models.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: There's a need for more people to get organized in their neighborhoods. And one guy told us we need more nosy people.

Mildred Harpole: Nosy people, right.

Temeka Williams: Well, hopefully these interviews and people hearing them will help, so. Unless there's anything else you guys want to add, I think we covered a lot.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: What about the Nia Imani?

Mildred Harpole: What about it?

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: She started something that's still going.

Mildred Harpole: Yes, but that has nothing to do with the topic, which is plant closings.

Temeka Williams: With the plant closings.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Hmm?

Plant closings.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Oh, plant closings.

Mildred Harpole: Now, see, you've got quite a few.

Reuben Harpole, Jr.: Oh, she asked me earlier about what are people doing to 00:54:00help the young people in the crime areas so far. So Nia Imani is helping with the crime areas.

Temeka Williams: Okay, well thank you so much. And I'll go ahead and stop.