Interview with Margaret Hudson, July 1, 2015, Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Temeka Williams: Today's date is July 1, 2015. I am Temeka Williams, interviewer. Yes, I am the interviewer, the oral historian, that's me. Margaret Hudson, and you are retired from OIC and you're not currently working, correct?

Margaret Hudson: No.

Temeka Williams: Okay, lucky you.

Margaret Hudson: No, I'm not.

Temeka Williams: Okay, well, this project is titled The Oral Histories on Plant Closings in Milwaukee. So that's the beginning part. And honestly, it seems like you are very personable and good at talking. Can you just give me a general background on, like, where you grew up, kind of, what your family was like, what your history here in Milwaukee?

Margaret Hudson: I grew up in Missouri.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: I am not a Wisconsinite. I didn't like Milwaukee.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: That's the truth, never have liked it.

Temeka Williams: Okay, but it's better than Chicago. That's what we said.

Margaret Hudson: I know, I'm originally from St. Louis and...

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: My father came here because of work.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And then he got my mother and me and brother. There's just two children.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Then we grew up here. I'm married to Tim Hathawitch in that year.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: And then, my brother was in the service and then I came back when he got his first furlough, the 30-day time.

Temeka Williams: Uh-huh.

Margaret Hudson: Once I got back, I wasn't staying, I just came back...

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: to see him and then my mother and father decided to tell me and my brother, they had something to tell us. We thought they're getting a divorce.

Temeka Williams: All right.

Margaret Hudson: They wouldn't. They decided that there were children out here they needed, I think. So they took in foster children. When I said children, I mean little bitty babies coming right out of the hospital. And they had eight 00:02:00at one time.

Temeka Williams: Wow.

Margaret Hudson: Yeah. So when I finally came back to Milwaukee to live permanently, they not only had two grown children with children, they had foster children. So I grew up around with them, but I was already grown, but they grew up with my children. And I've been here since.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: I cannot figure out how to get out of Wisconsin. I can't. I used to tell my mother if anything ever happened to her, I would leave Wisconsin.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Well, it did. Then I thought my father was still here and my brother was still here, so I said, "I ain't going yet." Daddy died, but I said, "Well, I still got a brother here."

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: My brother finally died. I still ain't leaving here.

Temeka Williams: Well, your family, your children are here, right?

Margaret Hudson: All my children are still here. Some of my grandchildren are not here.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: One granddaughter now is living in Texas. And one of my 00:03:00grandsons lives in Alabama. He's in the service. He's a recruiter and him and his two boys live in Alabama. I don't think I'm going there. I been to Texas for my birthday this year I'm going to Texas. He's sending me down there.

Temeka Williams: That's nice.

Margaret Hudson: And other than that, all the rest of them are here. That's the one reason I won't leave because all of my children are here.

Temeka Williams: Okay, how many children do you have?

Margaret Hudson: Seven. They're all here and all of my grandchildren. I raised ten grandchildren so they're all here.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Now my great-grandchildren...

Temeka Williams: Are going to be here. So you are here.

Margaret Hudson: Some of them are here. One great-granddaughter is in Washington in college right now.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And the other grandchildren, one granddaughter finished college 00:04:00and she's back here.

Temeka Williams: Okay, so you did say you left. Did you leave for school? I mean, where did you do primarily...

Margaret Hudson: When I left Milwaukee I was married.

Temeka Williams: Right you got married, but you got married here and then left with your husband to do what?

Margaret Hudson: He was gone to work.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: That didn't work.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: I divorced him.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: Then I married, believe it or not, I married again. I married a boy that I went to school with in St. Louis.

Temeka Williams: In St. Louis, okay. So you went to school in St Louis for high school, primary school?

Margaret Hudson: High school. Then when we got here, I quit going to school.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Because I got married. And then when I married Thomas in St Louis, he was in the service.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: So I lived in North Carolina for a while, Fayetteville.

Temeka Williams: Oh, I know Fayetteville.

Margaret Hudson: You do?

Temeka Williams: Uh-huh, I went to school in North Carolina as well for college.

Margaret Hudson: Yeah, he was stationed in Fort Bragg.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: So I was living down there for a while and then I went back to St. Louis.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Then I had babies again because I had some babies already. Had babies again and then that marriage didn't work out.

Temeka Williams: Oh, no. Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Momma said that’s my fault. I’m too big headed. And that's when I came back for good. I came here and then what I did, I went to... I worked, but I hadn't finished high school so I wasn't doing nothing.

Temeka Williams: Okay, so you didn't complete high school at that point.

Margaret Hudson: At that point, no. Went back to school.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And I didn't get a GED.

Temeka Williams: No?

Margaret Hudson: GED wasn't my thing.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And I went back to high school again at MATC.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: And to finish my high school. Then I went to two years, I got an associate degree in Social Welfare at MATC.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Yeah, and then, because I was working, but, you know, like, 00:06:00part-time and stuff. I was on the AFDC at the time because I had to feed and clothe and house my children.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: And I wasn't getting no child support, never did get any. And I just decided, I was the first person in my family on welfare and that wasn't for me. But I had to stay on that till I was able to get a decent job where I could make some money. And that's what I did. Been working ever since until OIC closed.

Temeka Williams: Okay, and then when OIC closed, you didn't find a job after that.

Margaret Hudson: The only place I found a job right after we closed, my girl used to be my supervisor, they asked her, they were still some files open of OIC's and they needed go through them and see if they were closed and if, you know, what should be done with them. And they asked her to do it and she recruited me to work with her. So I did work a little short time after they 00:07:00closed. And once we got through those files then I was out of a job again. And the only place I could get a job, believe it or not, was the post office as a casual.

Temeka Williams: As a what?

Margaret Hudson: As a casual. They hire, well, they don't anymore, but they used to hire what they call casual doing like the Christmas and stuff like that.

Temeka Williams: Okay, uh-huh.

Margaret Hudson: And I was able to, I have, my oldest daughter works for the post office and she brought, I asked her to bring me an application. She didn't want to, but she didn't have a choice. I told her to bring it. So she got me an application; I filled that out and turned it in and they called me and I went to work as a casual at the post office.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: The only thing about that, I had never been stayed on my feet for 8 hours working. I always had a desk to sit at. It almost killed my feet. But I stuck it out and I worked there until they stopped hiring casuals. Then it was just seasonal when they would hire you. And I worked there until they 00:08:00stopped hiring casuals.

Temeka Williams: Okay. So where in, it sounds like you've lived in different parts of Milwaukee. Where have you lived throughout Milwaukee?

Margaret Hudson: When we first came here, we lived on Center and that was just a short time. We were residing with another family.

Temeka Williams: They didn't bring you a water?

Margaret Hudson: Huh, huh. That's okay. I'm not a water person.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And then after that we moved on, I don't know what they call it now, we called the hill. We moved on Mount Vernon and we lived out there and then I left and got married. My parents lived; they were still living out there when I came back.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And then they moved in North Avenue. First time we came, we were living on Summers.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Yeah. And then the second time, me and my momma and my 00:09:00brother, Daddy sent us back.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: We didn't do nothing for crap so he sent us back to St. Louis. But then we came back, Daddy was living on Center and then after that, they lived on Mount Vernon. And I left when I came back to Milwaukee, where was Momma and Daddy living? I don't know where they were living.

Temeka Williams: You went back to St. Louis to live with other family there for high school without your parent?

Margaret Hudson: Oh yeah. When we first came here, we went back there.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Momma went with us.

Temeka Williams: Oh, she did, okay.

Margaret Hudson: Yeah, and we had, like, my daddy's mother and father was there.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: All his brothers and sisters were there. All but one sister. So when he sent us back to St. Louis, we never worried about a place, we had a place to stay near Momma got a job. We got our own place. We stayed there for a year.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: After school was out that summer.

Temeka Williams: Okay. And then you came back to rejoin your dad.

Margaret Hudson: We didn't have a choice.

Temeka Williams: Right. Kids don't get choices.

Margaret Hudson: She wasn't hearing it no more, so that's when we came back.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: But then my brother was in school there though because he graduated from Washington.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: Uh-huh. West Division, I'm sorry, West Division.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: Yeah, he graduated from West Division.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And then he went into the service after that.

Temeka Williams: That's right; you did bring that up. So how old are your kids? What are their age range?

Margaret Hudson: Sixty to, Kevin is forty-something.

Temeka Williams: That's your baby?

Margaret Hudson: Uh-huh.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: That's everybody's baby. He ain't worth two cents. But yeah, I have five girls and two boys.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Yeah. And the girls are, well, their names, Cheryl, Denise, Lulu, and Chuckie.

Temeka Williams: Uh-huh.

Margaret Hudson: Who am I missing? I'm missing one of them. Okay, Lulu, 00:11:00Chuckie, then Carol, then Angie and Kevin.

Temeka Williams: Okay, so a boy in the middle and a boy at the end.

Margaret Hudson: Uh-huh.

Temeka Williams: Okay, so I'm a little unclear on your first job because you said it was hard because at first you didn't have a college, or a high school...

Margaret Hudson: When I first came back here?

Temeka Williams: Yeah, so as far as...

Margaret Hudson: I worked at a place called Globe, something with Globe Union, I don't remember now, but it was a Christmas job.

Temeka Williams: Okay, seasonal?

Margaret Hudson: A seasonal job, and we packed stuff. And that didn't last long. But then I worked at a, there was a V and V market on Walnut. 7th and Walnut.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And I worked there. At that time though, my parents was living on 15th and North Avenue. In fact, I was living upstairs over them.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Then I worked, once they opened a V and V on North Avenue, 00:12:00because I lived right in the next block, I was able to work there. So that's what I was doing was working as a cashier.

Temeka Williams: Okay and you did that while you were attending school at MATC to get your diploma.

Margaret Hudson: See at that time, it was AFDC and you could go to school.

Temeka Williams: Oh, Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Yeah. Uh-huh. I couldn't, it's not that I thought I was better than everybody else, but given a check once a month was not my thing.

Temeka Williams: I understand.

Margaret Hudson: No.

Temeka Williams: I understand.

Margaret Hudson: You couldn't do nothing with it. By the time you paid your rent, and rent wasn't high then. You didn't have any money because you had to pay the light bill and gas bill.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: You know, and then the kids have to go to school.

Temeka Williams: Uh-huh.

Margaret Hudson: You had to eat. And what I would do, I would, I didn't believe in taking children to the store with me because I'd have to kill them because you see. If I take you to the store, wherever I go is where you need to be. 00:13:00And see, uh-uh, see, I'd hurt one of them so. I knew their sizes and I'd go, I don't know if you know where Sears used to be on North Avenue.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: But I'd go to Sears, and I'd put them in a lay-away. And when school was out in the summer, I'd put those clothes in a lay-away and I'd pay on them until just before school opened.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: And then by then I could get them out. So make sure my kids looked just as good as anybody else's child that went to school.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: And that's what I would do.

Temeka Williams: Okay, and so you were working there and then when you got your diploma you said you were able to get a different job with OIC at that point?

Margaret Hudson: No, I didn't work for OIC.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: I worked for Cream City.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: In fact they hired me and I was due to get out of school in June.

Temeka Williams: That's an ice cream factory, right?

Margaret Hudson: No it's not.

Temeka Williams: Okay. That's what they have one of those now and I was like, hmmm.

Margaret Hudson: It was actually a health insurance place for low income.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: And what we did, we went around and did the, I was hired in the Social Service Department. And the young lady, the young man that worked in the, that would go out, they would sign people up for insurance and at that time it was Blue Cross and Blue Shield. And that would help them with whatever insurance they had, if they had any. And then we would make like home visits with them. I made, in fact I remember making a home visit to one young lady that talk about killing herself.

And I sit with her and I gave her my phone number. Lord knows I told that girl, I said, "If you kill yourself, I'm going to wake you up and kill you again." But she was just depressed and I got her in to see a doctor. I had to talk and talk, you know, the young lady that was working with her, we had to talk and 00:15:00talk, but we got her in to see a doctor. And I worked with her until, you know, she seemed to get out, right. Even though she was seeing a doctor, we would still go see her.

Temeka Williams: And how long did you work with Cream City?

Margaret Hudson: Till they closed.

Temeka Williams: Okay, when was that?

Margaret Hudson: I don't remember the year, I'm being honest...

Temeka Williams: No, that's okay. So after Cream City, then...

Margaret Hudson: After Cream City, then I went to SDC.

Temeka Williams: What's that?

Margaret Hudson: Social Development Commission. It’s still running.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And I worked for them. They had a department where they taught reading and like a GED classes and stuff, so I worked with a young lady that I knew. She helped me get that job.

Temeka Williams: At SDC?

Margaret Hudson: Uh-huh. Before then though, I worked at, I forgot that. When Cream City closed, I worked for First Wisconsin Bank.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: At data entry.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Yeah. One of the young ladies, I went to, people that helped 00:16:00you get a job.

Temeka Williams: Like a recruiting company?

Margaret Hudson: It's not called a recruiting company though. Oh, Jesus, I done work with them twice and I can't think of the name of them.

Temeka Williams: You were just talking about W2 though.

Margaret Hudson: Uh-uh. No, that was before W2.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: It was still AFDC. When Cream City closed, one of the young ladies went to a place where they put you on jobs and she called me one day because I wasn't working right then and told me that the bank was hiring. And they wanted someone to come in and it’d be a part-time.

Temeka Williams: Uh-huh.

Margaret Hudson: You know, it wasn't a long-term job. And I said, "I don't care, it's a job." So I worked there and I never done data entry before and they taught me. It was easy. And I worked there and then when the young lady that was working for SDC, a job came open and she told me about it.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: So I applied and then I was working with her in her department and she had a teacher's degree and she was teaching a GED.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: And I worked in that department till that department closed. And then I applied for Family Crisis Center, which was a shelter and I worked for them until I had to resign. And then that's when I went to OIC.

Temeka Williams: Okay, all right. And so were you working at OIC, like, around the time that you started at OIC, was that around the same time that a lot of the plant closings were happening in Milwaukee?

Margaret Hudson: Not really. Some of them were closing, but not that many. They weren't closing. They didn't close; I was still at OIC, I think, when some of the plants closed.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Like A.O. Smith. I was there, I think, when they closed. No, I wasn't. They was, like, they hadn't closed, but, you know how they, the 00:18:00phasing out certain jobs that they were doing that. They were phasing out, you know. Because when A.O. Smith finally closed, I think OIC had closed because the girl that's our secretary at church, her and her twin sister worked there.

Temeka Williams: Okay, and you weren't working at OIC when they...

Margaret Hudson: No, uh-uh. When they finally closed, I wasn't working at OIC. OIC had closed.

Temeka Williams: So when did you start noticing that the plant closings were bringing more people to your office at OIC?

Margaret Hudson: It didn't necessarily do that.

Temeka Williams: It didn't, okay.

Margaret Hudson: No. Because those people that worked for the plants, they were still entitled to unemployment and some had pensions and so forth. So didn't necessarily bring, they only people that came to my office was W2 clients.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: That's who we worked with.

Temeka Williams: Okay. That's what your department at OIC worked with primarily?

Margaret Hudson: That's who my department worked with. Now there might have been some, but they might have went to other departments within OIC, you know.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And the only way they came to us, if a person was getting W2.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Because that's who we worked with.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: You know. I didn't, no, I know I didn't, I never got anybody that working for a plant that closed.

Temeka Williams: Oh, okay.

Margaret Hudson: I got them because they were on W2.

Temeka Williams: Okay, well, can you maybe tell me a little bit more about OIC because my understanding was that they did help a lot of people who are manufacturing type of jobs, factory jobs.

Margaret Hudson: Yeah, but that was another department in OIC.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: That wasn't the department I worked for.

Temeka Williams: That you were within.

Margaret Hudson: No. OIC had a lot of different departments open. You know, 00:20:00but not where I was. You know, some of them was on 3rd Street, some of them were different other places, but I didn't work in those departments.

Temeka Williams: Okay. So what type of people did you encounter within your role at OIC? Like what kind of backgrounds did they have?

Margaret Hudson: None.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Some of them had worked at one time or another. Not all of them were just never worked.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: They were menial jobs. And when I say menial, I'm not down-playing the job, it's just that there was no getting anywhere with it, you know. And I say this in all honesty when I say this and this is me. I not going to clean that Miss white lady's house.

Temeka Williams: Uh-huh.

Margaret Hudson: Some of them did that.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: But it was a job. Nothing wrong with it. It was all right for 00:21:00a male, but I wasn't going to do it. I told my parents that. And my momma's only sister did that. I know you'll did it because, you know, you had to make ends meet. But here my hand to God, I'm not going to clean up no white woman's house. And I don't have anything against white people. I'm just not going to clean their house.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: If I can clean mine, she can clean hers. And I just wasn't going to do that. And like I say, it's got nothing to do with that I dislike white people, that's a damn lie. I don't dislike white people.

Temeka Williams: Uh-huh. Well, everyone has their own personal preferences. I understand that. So, I mean...

Margaret Hudson: And there's nothing wrong with that. There's some little ladies that come to me and done that.

Temeka Williams: Uh-huh.

Margaret Hudson: I don't try to discourage them doing that. There was money coming in that house. I just wasn't going to do it.

Temeka Williams: So it sounds like you worked with a lot of the community that were already in a position where they were kind of, I don't if it's appropriate 00:22:00to say struggling; is that right?

Margaret Hudson: Honey, that's the best to put it. They were. They were struggling because they were on what they call W2.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: They went from an AFDC check that they were first getting, and an AFDC check with, if I had one baby, I'd get "x" amount of dollars. If I had another, they'd add more. If I had another, they'd add more. W2 didn't do that. W2 was a flat $673.

Temeka Williams: I think it's still that today.

Margaret Hudson: I think they dropped a ten.

Temeka Williams: You might be right actually.

Margaret Hudson: And I'd say this to a client, "How can you live on $673 a month?" Your rent is five, sometimes six. Tell me how you live, but you think it's something good. You think that just because I can stay home I can get $673 00:23:00a month, something's wrong with your thinking.

Temeka Williams: Do you think that that thought process was a result of people watching the plants close and people lose their jobs?

Margaret Hudson: Uh, uh. It's got nothing to do with that. They're lazy.

Temeka Williams: Okay. Was, I want to make sure I'm focused on the right time frame. Was this around the same time as the plants closing?

Margaret Hudson: Some of them, yeah.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: But it had nothing to do with that.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: First place, they didn't work in the plant.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: And it think they were all lazy. It was a generation thing.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: My mother was on AFDC until I was 18. I had a baby, so I got on it. I'm going to stay on this until my baby gets 18, then my baby will be on it. No. And I have told Clarence this. "You don't know what you're talking about," he said, "You don't know what it is." You're a liar, I do because I was 00:24:00on AFDC, but I was the first person in my family that ever asked for welfare.

Because I had to ask for it because I didn't have a job. I couldn't get a job. And I had some children. But it was never my idea to stay on AFDC. I could not live like that. And I ain't saying I'm better than nobody else. No I wouldn't. It was that I'm sitting at home getting one check a month. Who do I look like? There's nothing wrong with me. I can work. I just don't have the education because I was stupid.

And I tell them in a minute, "That was my fault." All I had to do was go to school.

Temeka Williams: Okay, so what do you think the plant closings did to the community that you were working with, if anything?

Margaret Hudson: It hurt a lot of women and it hurt a lot of men. It hurt them in this way; some of those women, boyfriend worked at these plants.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: When they lost their job, they were both in the same band; only difference is that the man could draw unemployment. But that wasn't a lot of money.

Temeka Williams: Right, uh-huh.

Margaret Hudson: It hurt the community when Miss Jones had the store on that corner, these men and women because they're women at A.O. Smith, would go in there and every day and buy something. When the plant closed, what happened to that store on that corner?

Temeka Williams: They couldn't buy anything.

Margaret Hudson: Uh-uh. They didn't have the money. And they weren't getting the crowd that they used to. And when I say "crowd," they wasn't crowding in there, but the men would come through there, the women would come through there. They had in the store and get it. The lady that owned that store. The restaurant over here where they go for lunch. Sometimes stop in and have a bite 00:26:00before they went to work or after they left work. Anybody in that plant, so anybody come in there.

Temeka Williams: Right. And you mentioned that your friends helped you find different positions that you got when times were tighter for people. Was the community as willing to help one another?

Margaret Hudson: Sure they were.

Temeka Williams: But if there was not that many options available, what did people turn to next?

Margaret Hudson: They did. If you lived in this neighborhood, and people knew that you had children and knew that you didn't have that much, they looked out for you.

Temeka Williams: That's good. I wonder if they do that now days.

Margaret Hudson: That was good neighborhoods around here now. After a while they got to be worth shit, but my parents, even though they became foster 00:27:00parents. There was a young lady that lived on the corner from us on 15th. We lived on North Avenue and 15th; she lived on 15th, she had one child.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Lenora lost her job. And I don't remember now where she was working. I'd come in every day because I'd go through momma's to go upstairs, Lenora and her daughter was, because Sandra was sitting there. One day, they always ate at my momma's. And one day I came in, I said, "Hm, Lenora and Sandra ain't here huh?" Momma said, "No. Your daddy took them up to Sears to get that child some shoes."

I said, "Get what child some shoes?" Because Sandra. I said, "Momma, let me ask you a question," I said, "Lenora got one child, why ya'll buying her shoes 00:28:00and why ya'll keep on feeding them?" She said, "When you're a spoiled brat, you'll say things like that." I was a grown woman though. And momma said, "Because she needs the help. She goes out every day looking for her job. She needs the help." And I said, "But you got these foster children and look at all the grandchildren you got."

Because at that time she had 14 grandchildren. I had seven, my brother had seven.

Temeka Williams: Oh, wow. You guys were having a little competition there?

Margaret Hudson: I didn't expect to have that many. My momma didn't have but two.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: She said, "So." I said, "But you're always buying." She said, "If your kid needs anything, and would we buy it?" "Yeah, but I'm your daughter and that's your son." Momma said, "I didn't know I raised a selfish winch." And she didn't, Momma didn't call us names none. And I said, "Excuse me?" She said, "You heard me." She said, "The child needs help. We going to help him 00:29:00whether you like it or not.

And by the way, Miss, you don't make my money."

Temeka Williams: Well, your mom told you.

Margaret Hudson: Now whe would tell you off. I said, "Yes, ma'am." I never said that again, but I was a grown woman. I should have understood that, but I was used to my momma and my daddy. They didn't have no more children and this was like a child to them. But I knew better.

Temeka Williams: But you said the community eventually changed. Do you think the plant closings contributed to that change when you said; I think you said it went to shit.

Margaret Hudson: No. I think it's the people that came here from wherever they came from. They wasn't the same type as them older people were. older people.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And they wasn't the same.

Temeka Williams: And did the old people leave the neighborhood then?

Margaret Hudson: They would either move or they died off. It wasn't, and they wasn’t old, old. When I say old my mom and dad weren't that old. They were those kind of people who were raised, who came from the south. At one time or another. Even though they might have lived in the city. But they came with those veins. That if the neighbor next door needed a piece of bread, and I got two, I'm going to give the neighbor next door a piece of bread. These young folks now, and I say I'm old enough, now I say young folks, that came into the city, they looked after them.

Temeka Williams: So would you say that both the older people and the younger people notice the change when the plant closings were happening? And how did the response between the two different generations differ? Besides you saying that the older generation was more willing to help.

Margaret Hudson: Well the younger generation got to be the fat dogs, and when I 00:31:00say, I say that to say this, they went to breaking in and shit didn't do breaking in, because it didn't belong to them. Some of the parents, and not all of them, really didn’t give a care. The kids did what they wanted to do when they wanted to do it.

Temeka Williams: Why didn't the parents care from your perspective?

Margaret Hudson: Because they didn't know no better.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: They really didn't. They were not raised the way I was raised for whatever reason. They didn't raise their children the way I was raised and the way I raised mine and some of the other people raised their children. We raised our children to just as respectful to you as they would be somebody seventy. You are an adult. You are not a child. You might look like a child, but you are an adult.

My child who's a child had to say, if you're first name was Christine, "Hi, Miss Christine". My 60 year old daughter says to my friend—I have a friend named Christine—"Hi Miss Christine." Yes, ma'am, no ma'am. Because she likes the teeth that's in her mouth. I don't play that. You will respect, when I say the elders, they don't mean that you grey headed. But you will respect your elders. Anybody that is a good friend of mine, it’s grown and old enough to be your mamma.

So you will act like that. These kids nowadays, they don't.

Temeka Williams: So, how did the older people respond to the plants closings? Because if they're older hopefully they are retired...

Margaret Hudson: Some of their kids lost jobs.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: I have a girlfriend whose sister and husband worked A.O. Smith. The husband worked there and his son worked there. He retired, he had retired 00:33:00just before they went to close it.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: The son still worked there.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: In fact I think both his sons, two of the boys worked there. When the plant closed they locked those kids out of a job.

Temeka Williams: And then what did they do?

Margaret Hudson: They went and lived with mamma and dada.

Temeka Williams: For how long?

Margaret Hudson: Last time I saw Charlotte, one of the boys was still there. Because he never married. He got some babies out there, but he never married.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: He was still there the last time I saw Charlotte. Now I don't know if he's dead, I haven't seen Charlotte in a while. That's what happened, and I called the trickle down. Or the trickle-up. But mom and daddy already retired. I got job over here with my family. I do the best I can. Sooner or 00:34:00later the house I'm living in I can't stay there no more. Where I go? Over here to mom and dad. At their house.

And we bunk up together. Now they do that. They stay still do that.

Temeka Williams: As a result of those closings there are some people who never were able to...

Margaret Hudson: To get back up on their feet. You know. One of the things that we as black people do anyhow, if you get down and you look, and you got some family, their taking in, they are taking in for a long time. They're taking in. And then when you get back, me, I know that you can't move back in mine no more. But they'll do that. Someone will have to do that based on the plants closing. And they did as much as they could, as long as they could.

And then after a while, you can't pay your rent, you can't pay that mortgage, 00:35:00you might be skipping, you might be able to get by with the rent. Because sometimes the rent ain't as much as the mortgage. And then they lose their house. Then they got to have somewhere to go. Some of them people have not found jobs. And if they've found them they're not the kind of money they made at the plants.

Temeka Williams: Right. So, are there any success stories of people who've managed to still survive and do more than survive after the plants closed?

Margaret Hudson: Any boy that belongs to my church. And the only reason I want you to use it, Annabel mention. Annabel went back to A.O. Smith. She laid out and she went back to A.O. Smith when they called her back. When they closed she was able to get some kind of pension. Annabel able to do that. Annabel saved her way, but she got dementia. Because we have to watch her when she comes to church.

But other than that I'll take you to talk to Annabel.

Temeka Williams: Okay. Well, that's, I'm glad you brought that up. How did the church community respond to their constituents going through this, these changes.

Margaret Hudson: I know in my church that you got, good or bad, they'd help. Because they helped me when I was, after OIC closed. I didn't tell them. One of my girlfriends told it. They're about to cut my light and gas out. I paid as much as I could. I didn't have no more money. And she went to pastor. I don't know if she did it because she called when I say somebody, she said or I will slap you. But she went to pastor and told pastor I was going to have my lights and gas cut off. Cause I wonder half the deacons knew that I was in a bind because they called me.

And asked me out to lunch. I said yeah, okay. And so both of them are married. I knew who they were and they both married. So I knew it was no hanky panky 00:37:00mess. And I said okay, so we went to lunch and they got to talking. They already had the check. And I asked both of them, “How did you find out I needed some help?” And they said, “That’s alright. A little bird told us.” So I’m trying to figure out—

Temeka Williams: Who's telling your business.

Margaret Hudson: Because, I don't, I don't tell too many people my business. And I knew three women knew. And I'm trying to figure out which one of them three ran their mouth. So, I said, that’s alright, somebody gonna tell me. I was talking to Rory , and I said to her that the church helped me. I said, "I was able to pay my light and gas bill.” I said, “I'm trying to figure out who told them.” And I said, “You knew it, Christine knew it. And Gretchen knew."

I said, "I'm going to talk to them, I going to cuss me out somebody." She told "Margaret, I told". I said, "who told you to tell it?" She said, "cause I knew 00:38:00you wouldn't" I said, no, I wouldn't volunteer. But I'm never going to church. .

Temeka Williams: So do you feel like even you yourself didn't want to seek out help. How hard do you feel it was for these other people. Even with their, even the people that you're saying were your friends, and their children lost their jobs. How did those people feel? Did any of them tell you about those feelings?

Margaret Hudson: Uh, uh. An I guess, and I'll tell you why, because I don't tell my business to folks. And when we talk we talk just generally, you know, I don't, and I try not to get, that's one thing my mother said, “stay out of folks’ business.” If you can't help them stay out of it. And I just don't. The three ladies that I called of them three, two of them I constantly got to tell my business to, because we talk to each other.

And we got some problem we tell each other that kind of thing. And I don't do that. And if you say something to me, I promise you this I don't say nothing to nobody. I don't. I just don't. I don't go around, you tell me something, and girl, do you know what Alice do tell me... I don't do that, uh, uh. No.

Temeka Williams: Right.

Margaret Hudson: And in a sense most of the mature black people were able to make it their best they could. Yes they had some problems, but they had somebody to go to. Whether it's the church, or family members, most of them had somebody that they could kind of turn to. Until it got obnoxious, and then you couldn’t turn to them. But I think most of them did fairly well. Now I don't know about all of them because I didn't know all of them.

Temeka Williams: Right. But where would people go when?

Margaret Hudson: They could not, like if it's a family, if they get that bad, 00:40:00they could have apply for W2.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: They get it. But that's not trying to pass the W2. You got to be willing to do what the guidelines are.

Temeka Williams: Job search...

Margaret Hudson: Yeah. And all that. They could get food stamps. And now with this new rule they got to be getting food stamps have them Heaven Jesus, you got to take a drug test.

Temeka Williams: Hmm, I did read something about that.

Margaret Hudson: Listen here please. I don't take drugs. But I would food stamps, I get food stamps cause I'm a senior and they give me some, they don't give me enough, but they give me some and I appreciate that. They ask that we take a drug test, you know, . Because I'm not taking it. Because I don't take drugs. The only medicine I take is the medicine my doctor gave me. Now I don't know testing me if there's some drugs and some of that I don't know.

Temeka Williams: did drug use grow as a result of people, the plants closing or 00:41:00like what other types of things happened because like alcoholism, those different? What kind of effects, I should ask more generally shouldn't...

Margaret Hudson: None that I know of. These niggas already doing drugs, and they was already drunk, so...

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: I really don't. I don't know because I know some people that worked at OIC, A.O. Smith. They were drunks. They drank all the time, you know. So, that plant closing didn't hurt them. You know what I'm saying? They were already drunk.

Temeka Williams: Why did OIC close? What happened?

Margaret Hudson: They accused Mr. G of kickback or something, paying somebody off.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: He went to jail.

Temeka Williams: and?

Margaret Hudson: And they didn't keep it open. They had somebody, now this is just my personal opinion. Okay, not only mine, some other folks. They had 00:42:00somebody there who could’ve stepped in, the vice president, this Mr. Clay. I believe they let Mr. Clay there it would have still been there.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And I'm not... I might be the only one to say it out loud. But a lot of folks that I worked with say the same thing.

Temeka Williams: Okay. Because I, from what I am understanding about OIC did for people, if OIC had remained open, wouldn't that have been a resource to the people?

Margaret Hudson: OIC offered training, lot of stuff. Uh, huh. It would have been fine. But they chose to close it.

Temeka Williams: So what kind of training programs replaced OIC?

Margaret Hudson: None that I know of. Other than W2.

Temeka Williams: That's not really fully a training.

Margaret Hudson: That ain't shit.

Temeka Williams: okay.

Margaret Hudson: And a lot of people there, left there, got laid off from OIC, 00:43:00you know, when OIC closed. Some of the better ones have not found a job at the other agencies. My supervisor, I always called her my supervisor, because when it closed she was at another building, so she wasn’t my supervisor, but I always called her— Beverly, she worked through an agency. She had a job for a while. Other than that, that's the only job Beverly ever got.

And Beverly was in management at OIC. Lot of us older people we got no jobs. One of the young ladies, that was damn good, still is, in employment. If she wrote your resume, did your resume, and a cover letter, and if you didn't get a job, something wrong with you. That's how good she is, you know. Finally went 00:44:00to Georgia.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: You know. She still Wisconsin. Cause I go on Facebook but I play games. And read everything y'all put on there. . I don't write nothing. I read. But I play. My kids put it on there because they knew I like to play games. And they put them on there and show me the games, I play the games. I read everything they put on that. I just go down and I read some of it I'd like to slap their . But Verna if you look, she'll have, if she knows jobs in Wisconsin, she's on that, on that.

Jobs in Georgia, it's on there. She also tell you to go on her page, if you need a cover letter and a resume written. Two of my good granddaughters... I told them, I sent them Verna, I said let Verna do it. They had no problem getting jobs.

Temeka Williams: So there is definitely some good people out there, definitely 00:45:00lazy people out there. I feel like we covered a lot, and you definitely talked about the plant closing and some facts. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you want to share? I was trying to be, trying not to lead you too much with my questions but I mean. But one of things I guess that's on here that I didn't ask you is what do you think they should have done when all these plants closings were happening.

Margaret Hudson: I want to say that I felt like it would have been good if they had a place where... if I had been a welder all my life, maybe there's something else I could do, ‘cause if there ain’t no plants out there. They didn't have a place where I could go train. Get some different training. And they might have had it, I don't know.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: But that would have been nice. You know to have something in place where these people could go and get some sort of other training. In a 00:46:00field, there's a job in Wisconsin, for that field you know, not just training to be training, you know what I'm saying. You know, but I think that would have been nice you know.

Temeka Williams: And for your school, when you finished MATC got your associate's did they ever have any programs that, I mean, MATC's been around for a long time. Was there anything that the educational institutions did to help transition people that lost their jobs?

Margaret Hudson: Sure they did went down there. You know I don't know if they after they recruited them? But I don't know what they did at MATC, I'm being honest.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: And I tell everybody, if you've been out of school for a long time, for years, don't go out of UW, go to MATC first. Get back into the studying, and taking classes and taking tests. Not that you couldn't get it at UW, I'm not saying that. I'm saying if you haven't been in school in 30 years, 00:47:00don't you dare try to go out to UW first.

Temeka Williams: Do you feel like after there was a certain amount of time that would pass then people would kind of give up I guess on finding something.

Margaret Hudson: I don't know, but I did.

Temeka Williams: You did?

Margaret Hudson: I'm tired of going out put in an application. And I have sense that if I don't hear from you after a certain time, I'm going to call you, find out what's going on. And it come up, you know, that was sorry about that. There was someone that was a little more qualified. Then you find out because you know somebody there. You find out they had it in and they don’t have more than you. They were just younger.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: You know so I just said, I'm tired. I'm tired of going out here every day, putting in an application. Sitting here at the computer putting in an application. I just quit. I had to, I get a social security check. So I 00:48:00had to do what can do to with that, which ain’t shit, but.

Temeka Williams: Hey you still raised your seven kids and have grandkids and great grandkids, so...

Margaret Hudson: And I don't babysit no more. I don't babysit. The last time I left my house was Shirley . We call her Shay-shay . She was a baby. When I took the kids from my daughter. She wasn’t thought about. She had her afterwards. And my daughter and my other daughters went out to the hospital and brought her home. I waited till she graduated from high school, she didn't want to go to college, I said fine.

Get you a job. She had a job. She went from just working because she was in school to full time. Made manager. Got a place to live and moved.

Temeka Williams: Okay.

Margaret Hudson: Her sister right up over her was still in college. When she come home she got her job, she stayed there for a while. She got her place and she moved. When that one moved that was the last one of them. I’m through with children. I don't babysit.

Temeka Williams: I appreciate you taking the time to share with me as one of the young people.