Interview with Akira Toki, November 2, 1993, Madison, Wisconsin

STEVE KOLMAN: This is Steve Kolman interviewing Akira Toki for the Wisconsin During World War II Oral History Project. It is November 2, 1993, and it's 7 PM. The interview's taking place in Madison, Wisconsin. Why don't we start by going right back to the beginning of the war and Pearl Harbor. Where were you, what were some of your first thoughts when you heard that they'd been attacked?

AKIRA TOKI: Even before that I was, you know, when Roosevelt had the fish bowl and picked out all the numbers out of the fish bowl for selective service. I was the first one in that jar so I was drafted real early. But then I was deferred because I told the Draft Board that if this country got into war I would come in 00:01:00right away. So when they bombed Pearl Harbor, well first thing I knew I got a greeting card from Uncle Sam. [laughs] So I had to straighten all my mess out at home and in about three weeks’ time I was in the Service.

STEVE KOLMAN: So you were actually drafted then earlier in the year before the War?

AKIRA TOKI: It was earlier in the year but then I was deferred. Then when they bombed Pearl Harbor I volunteered. That's why I went. Because I had six months deferment because I farmed a big--as a farmer to grow produce to help feed the people in town. That's what I did, see? Then, well, I was with my father at that time, so. Then when I got the greeting, well, it didn't take me very long to get 00:02:00ready so I just--we all had to meet uptown at, well it's a Washington building, it's gone now. It's a state office building where it was downtown. So the Red Cross was there with us and gave us donuts and coffee. It was about seven o'clock in the morning. That's when we all went up there and the loaded us on the bus and we went to Fort Sheridan.

STEVE KOLMAN: How many others were there?

AKIRA TOKI: There was 76 of us all together, I think. And then there was at the same time, there's one Chinese boy. This Chinese guy is a real good friend of mine, now. So when the newspaper heard about us two going into service together 00:03:00to fight for our country, well at that time the Chinese were our allies and Japan was our enemy. So they made kind of a big story about us two. So the newspaper photographers from the Wisconsin State Journal) and everybody was up there taking our pictures and we're sitting together in the bus. Then we went to Fort Sheridan together and there I think I stayed about two weeks down there, getting my clothes and all that kind of thing. Then from there I went to Camp Robinson, Arkansas for my basic.

STEVE KOLMAN: I'm just curious, before we get into the whole basic training, 00:04:00what were the two of you thinking as all this was going on, this hoopla?

AKIRA TOKI: To me, it didn't bother me at all because--I think if I was a person that lived in California with all the Japanese people maybe I might have a little funny feeling. But I was only Japanese-Oriental into Madison so I was thinking just like, like the way you [like a white man] think. My mind was all American and I think--I don't know what my Chinese friend thought about I don't know. So I didn't know any discrimination or anything like that was going on 00:05:00see, because I thought I was just as good as anybody else and I thought just like everybody else. People like around here.

STEVE KOLMAN: Did it seem weird that you'd had this background that was just like everyone elses’ but then all of a sudden you were in the Army and there were people taking your picture and not the other guys who were going off?

AKIRA TOKI: Well, a lot of it was publicity, that's what it was. That's what I thought at that time, it was publicity, stunts. Well, the way I look at it now it was something to sell more newspapers [laugh]. So my thoughts were, no 00:06:00feeling at all. And all my friends were going you know. All my neighbor boy friends, they're all going into service and I didn't want to be left alone so that's how I--that's my thought, see. And I want to get in there and do my share.

STEVE KOLMAN: Did you have any buddies who were among that group that you went down to Fort Sheridan with?

AKIRA TOKI: Well, I had one friend, he lived in Oregon, he's a mechanic. He used to fix our cars and trucks and tractors for us. So after that--he's the only one that I really knew real close. Most of them were all strangers, including my 00:07:00Chinese friend. [laugh] So the Chinese friend and I separated at Fort Sheridan so from there I didn't know where he went and he didn't know where I went until we came home [to Madison]. Even when I was at Fort Sheridan, getting processed for Camp Robinson, Arkansas to do my basic, I found--see, they were already drafting Oriental boys into the service, Japanese boys into the service at that time.

STEVE KOLMAN: This is when, right about New Year's?

AKIRA TOKI: Let's see.

STEVE KOLMAN: How long after Pearl Harbor was this?

AKIRA TOKI: Pearl Harbor was December 7 wasn't it?

STEVE KOLMAN: Yes.

AKIRA TOKI: Alright, and I went to Camp Robinson, Arkansas, on February 12, Lincoln's birthday. That's when I went to Camp Robinson, Arkansas, for my basic.

STEVE KOLMAN: So then you left Madison the end of January sometime?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, when I was at Camp Robinson, Arkansas, there was quite a few Oriental boys there already so they took me to a company, there were six Oriental boys in that company already, I was the Sixth one. They 00:09:00segregated us at that time because of there were six or seven boys in each company down the line. So when I met up with those guys I didn't know how to approach them because the way I talked to Caucasian people I might offend those Oriental boys. So I was kind of…

STEVE KOLMAN: How did you speak differently to white people then? What did you think was…

AKIRA TOKI: I didn't know what those boys' thoughts were. Because I knew what Caucasian boys' thoughts are, you know. If you told something they'll throw it right back at you or, you know, make fun out of it. With Oriental boys I didn't 00:10:00know what their reactions were and they were kind of shy. Because I had to go up to them and introduce myself and tell them who I was and where I came from and they were still kind of you know, kind of what a peculiar guy I am, being an Oriental like them. But eventually they got to understand me and I got to understand them so we got along alright.

STEVE KOLMAN: Where were these guys from?

AKIRA TOKI: They were from California, I think there was one from Utah and 00:11:00Arizona I think. That's where they're from. They're from the West.

STEVE KOLMAN: So none of them were [from] as isolated [a background] as you?

AKIRA TOKI: No, no, no, no. I'm the only one that was isolated because at that time we were the only Japanese family in Madison. Well there was another family here, he was married to a Norwegian lady and so they had three boys. But they were more like Caucasian, the way the Caucasian people acted. So I didn't think nothing of it. I just talked to them and they talked to me and we were pretty good friends. But going back to Arkansas--so we went through the basic there of 00:12:00nine weeks and then when the Orders goes up they shipped out all the Caucasian boys and left us Orientals there.

STEVE KOLMAN: So when you were you going through basic--you were with these six other Japanese guys but you were within a squadron or what have you of…

AKIRA TOKI: A squad.

STEVE KOLMAN: A squad of whites and Asians.

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah. So when we got done with the basic, see they shipped out all the other guys out and left all the Orientals behind. Then they collected. us 00:13:00together--I didn't know this at this time, I'm trying to tell you now what I mean--they collected all of us together again so there's four train loads of Orientals were in that camp and they loaded us up on the train, all Orientals, and they loaded us up on a train, they didn't tell us where we were going, nothing.

STEVE KOLMAN: What were you thinking this whole time? When you see all these other guys go off and then all that's left is the Asians?

AKIRA TOKI: It didn't make me feel good but what other choice did I have? Then first thing we knew we headed up to Camp Grant. There I met up with more Oriental boys.

STEVE KOLMAN: Where's Camp Grant?

AKIRA TOKI: Illinois, Rockford. So they split us all up and I ended up in the 00:14:00receptions center to do pencil pushing and things like that you know. And I end up in the mess hall and now those other boys were taking care of the barracks and they were in charge of the barracks and things like that. And then they had the Quartermaster and there were the medics, so they were scattered all over the camp. And while I was at Camp Grant, I don't know, see I came to Camp Grant on 00:15:00Washington's Birthday. See I'm getting all presidential’s birthday. So I came there at Camp Grant on Washington's birthday. Then they gave us all these duties to do and I was in mess hall, I was in ration breakdown. See we had three mess halls, so I was in charge of.--I was separating the rations for each mess hall. There was officer's mess hall and two recruit mess halls so I would break all their ration down divided it up to three. Naturally officers got the best stuff 00:16:00[laugh]. Then while we're there I used to See all these Caucasian boys get processed and go off to camp to another camp.

STEVE KOLMAN: What was the primary purpose of Camp Grant? What was going on there?

AKIRA TOKI: It was a recruiting Station, processing place. See we have like Fort Sheridan and Camp Grant, too, in Illinois. But we stayed there for quite awhile. In the meantime the government said we [Japanese Soldiers] were unfit for combat.

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, I was about to ask you about that because that was almost exactly that time between March and June [of 1942] that was all being fought out in congress that year and I was wondering you guys had heard about it and what you were thinking.

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah we don't--I used to go to my company commander, I use to bitch 00:17:00like hell all the time. I asked him, why, how come we can't go on convoy with them to take these recruits to another camp? Be in charge of the people, take them to the other camps then come back and take some more out. He gave me all kinds of alibis. Then I was bitching some more and I said, how about furlough. Well, I bitched about that for quite awhile. Well, first thing you knew I guess he got sick and tired of me, listening to me complain about furlough. So, I got a furlough. Because the rest of the [Japanese] guys couldn't get a furlough.

STEVE KOLMAN: Was that part of the suspicion or . . . ?

AKIRA TOKI: Suspicions. Because at that time, when I was at Camp Grant, they were evacuating the West Coast. They're bringing all the Japanese Orientals into the inland and put them into the camps, concentration camps, things like that. And those camps were like--they were under armed Supervision anyway. See that's the time when they said we were unfit for combat duty and that's when they started to evacuate the West Coast.

STEVE KOLMAN: And you knew about the internment that was going on in the West Coast?

AKIRA TOKI: Oh yeah I knew about that. That's what made me more determined to get out of there and get what I could, you know, go on furloughs and go on 00:19:00convoys like that. To show them that we were trustworthy. But it was quite a struggle trying to get that furlough. But then, after I got my furlough, then the rest of the guys started to get their little furloughs. While I was at Camp Grant--see, we [my family] lived in Madison so we and my mom and papa were here so I used to bring the boys home [to Madison from Rockford] with me. So they'd you know, they were hungry for Oriental food and things like that. So one 00:20:00instant was, we left Camp Grant, one of the boys had a California car With a California license. He'd brought it out of California but he didn't go to [internment] camp. He came inland far enough so he wouldn't have to go to camp. He stayed with a friend and he brought his car. But in the meantime he was inducted into the Army. [laugh] So we had his car at Camp Grant. So I told him, "I'll take you home with me." So there's four of us in the car and our company commander gave us a pass, we got out of the gate, then we started going north to Madison and somebody in Beloit spotted us, spotted Orientals driving through so 00:21:00they alerted the police. By the time they caught up to us we were at Evansville right down here [south of Madison] and they stopped us and they told us to get out of the car and took us in the building. They searched us and interrogated us. They even took my, I had a fountain pen, they disassembled that thing too. At that time these, you know, all that hysteric going on with the evacuation on the West Coast and Orientals traveling with American uniforms on and they thought we were spies. So they took us into this building and they interrogated 00:22:00us. In the meantime they called the company commander. They looked at our pass and called the company commander at Camp Grant [to see] if we were legit. So when they got done they let us go. They didn't apologize or nothing. They said, here let's go. We walked on our own and came home. But in the meantime they told us not to go [north] beyond Madison. The reason is the Badger Ordinance plant was, you know, there's a munitions thing up there [in Baraboo]. So they told not to go beyond Madison. So we didn't go up there. In the meantime the American Legion got a hold [of the news] about us and they wrote a real harsh letter to 00:23:00Evansville Police Department. Gave them hell for it. That American Legion guy he was a good friend of Ours. And he was a lawyer. You know how they are. So he wrote a letter to them and told them that we were all well Americans and then told them our story about me being born in Madison and all that kind of stuff. So we went back to Camp. The whole camp knew about us being interrogated by the 00:24:00Evansville Police. [laugh] They asked us what the hell you guys were doing up there. [laugh] So we were getting razzed quite abit when we got back. So that's how--That's the first time I ever have been with so many Orientals in my life. Especially on that train, coming to Camp Grant. That's when I saw a lot. I started out with about six of them, then I saw trainload of Orientals, black headed Ones, then I came to Camp Grant and I saw more. So I stayed there for nearly two years I think. Pretty close to two years.

STEVE KOLMAN: So from mid-1942 to mid-1944?

AKIRA TOKI: Or somewheres in there. Or 1943, somewheres in there. So then they closed Camp Grant. Then they put us, all the Orientals, back in another big pool of all Orientals. They shipped us to Fort Sheridan. I went back to Fort Sheridan again, we stayed there for maybe two or three weeks. Then they shipped us to Camp Blanding, Florida, where a lot more Orientals. When we went to Camp Blanding, Florida, they gave us 16 weeks of combat duty training. They taught us 00:26:00how to drive trucks and how to use the enemy equipment and dirty tactics. All that stuff--they gave it to us. See they were getting us [ready] to go overseas. In the meantime while we were at Camp Grant we were all non-coms. We were Corporals and Sergeants because we'd been there over a year and a half so they gave us all rank to keep us shut, keep our mouth shut. That didn't stop me from talking [laugh]. But when I went--so went we went to Camp Blanding they gave us the 16 weeks of real combat duty. They showed us how to climb, get aboard ship 00:27:00up the rope ladder and come down off the rope ladder and I guess dirty tactics.

STEVE KOLMAN: What sort of dirty tactics?

AKIRA TOKI: Well they taught us Judo and how to use knives and stuff like that. Well for self-defense that's what it was. Then they showed us how to fire all the weapons. They taught us to do everything so wherever you went we can use 00:28:00anything or anything that's around to use.

STEVE KOLMAN: This was the same combat training that all soldiers went through before going overseas?

AKIRA TOKI: I think ours was heavier. Ours was more combat duty kind of thing.

STEVE KOLMAN: Why do you suppose that was?

AKIRA TOKI: Well I guess they--in the meantime they reclassified us see into combat fitting duty now. So they gave us that kind of training then they asked us if anybody wants to go into airborne. Well, I'd signed up for paratroopers. 00:29:00My papers went all the way through up till the last days. I don't know what happened, I didn't get there. In the meantime they shipped us all to Camp Shelby, Mississippi. That's where the 442 guys were down there training.

STEVE KOLMAN: Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Had you been given any kind of designation prior to that, like company designation?

AKIRA TOKI: No, no, no. We had no classification at all. So they shipped us--gave us furlough, then they shipped us to Camp Shelby, Mississippi, Camp Shelby. There were a lot more Orientals there, oodles of them.

STEVE KOLMAN: What kind of numbers are we talking about here? When you were at Grant?

AKIRA TOKI: Oh, when I was at Grant, I think there must be over 500 of us had there.

STEVE KOLMAN: And then more when you went down to Florida?

AKIRA TOKI: Florida, see that was a battalion down there so that's a bigger group. But we were all non-coms there. I mean at Fort Blanding. Then they shipped us to Shelby. There we got into fights with the 442 guys because they were jealous of our stripes. We stayed there maybe two weeks then they put us on a train so we won't have any more casualties at Camp Shelby so they shipped us out to overseas.

STEVE KOLMAN: The guys who were in the 442 at that point, where had they been 00:31:00coming from?

AKIRA TOKI: They were from Hawaii and a lot of mainland boys because they were coming out of the relocation camps because they were--well, those kids didn't want to stay in relocation camp because they didn't have much to do and I guess they had--well, they want to prove that they were loyal Americans too so that's why they came out and formed this 442.

STEVE KOLMAN: Were any of these guys folks who had come out of Camp McCoy, Wisconsin, because I know the 100th [another Japanese American battalion] had been to Camp McCoy?

AKIRA TOKI: 100th was at Camp McCoy. Because while I was at Camp Grant the 100th was at Camp McCoy. When I was coming home, every other week, some of the Camp 00:32:00McCoy boys would come down to our house and they'd eat and sleep and, you know, relax and go downtown. And one time I met up with those guys, when I was home. I met an officer. He tried to get me to go with him. I didn't have no inkling of joining that 100th battalion at that time.

STEVE KOLMAN: That was pretty much all Hawaiians, right?

AKIRA TOKI: They were Hawaiians, yeah. The majority were Hawaiian boys. So they shipped us out of Camp Shelby then they shipped us to Camp Patrick Henry, that was our prot of embarkation to go to Europe. Then they put us on a boat and we went to Italy.

STEVE KOLMAN: Before we get to Europe, I just want to go back through some of the stuff that happened here, starting back at the beginning and moving on through. When you were enlisting, I guess you were drafted and then you went right in, did you ever have any doubt about going in? I mean were you always sure, was your family supportive of you going in?

AKIRA TOKI: In a way they were, in a way they were. Well, because I was the only boy, they didn't want me to go but what other choice did they have if I wanted to go? So I just made up my mind I want to go, so they let me go. I have three 00:34:00sisters and then we had the farm, so there's nobody to run the farm after something happened to my mother and father. It was my decision to go.

STEVE KOLMAN: So could you have had a deferment if you'd wanted probably, as a farmer?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, I could have, I could have. But just like I said before, I committed myself prior to the start of the war, if the United States went to war I'd go in.

STEVE KOLMAN: Were you expecting war at this time? I mean obviously there was a 00:35:00lot of buildup to this point. I mean you'd been drafted earlier, but I guess what I'm really wondering is were you expecting war in the Pacific or were you assuming that if war started it would start in Europe?

AKIRA TOKI: I don't know. I never thought of that question you ask me now. It never phased me on that part there. Because I knew that the war in Europe was going on. But I didn't think the United States--that Japan was going to come this way. And when they bombed Pearl Harbor I was surprised because I was at home in the backyard and my sister comes running out of the house and telling me they bombed Pearl Harbor. It was kind of a surprise that they did it, to me. I 00:36:00knew about Europe, about Hitler and Mussolini because there were guys going already at that time, you know, volunteering into the service. Some of my friends were.

STEVE KOLMAN: You say you were surprised. Did it hit you or your family at all on a personal level that Japan was the aggressor nation and would attack the United States like that?

AKIRA TOKI: Well, my dad said they were stupid to do that. Look at the distance they have to come to do that. Well, I had a feeling like that too, I didn't think they would come like that. But what are you going to do when somebody 00:37:00bigger than anybody else tells you to go then you got to do it see. So emotionally I think we were kind of cool. Anyway, I was anyway. I think I was more excited going into the Army at that time.

STEVE KOLMAN: Did you still have family in Japan, or I should say family that you kept in touch with?

AKIRA TOKI: No, no. We knew they were there but I never seen [them] and never met them at all. My father and mother--I think he had a brother over there but 00:38:00they lost contact and my mother had some relatives Over there, too. I made contact after the war with them. After, oh it must be about five or six years ago I went to Japan on a trip. I just wanted to go back to see where my ancestors came from.

STEVE KOLMAN: And that was the first time you'd been?

AKIRA TOKI: No, that's the second time. The first time I went there I went to--I stopped at Tokyo and then I went to Hong Kong and then I came to Hawaii. But the last time I was there I was there three weeks so I traveled quite a bit of 00:39:00Japan. That's all where my father and mother came from. I met some of my--I think they're distance cousins that I met. And then while we were over there, they treated us real good. We were surprised because over there male is more prominent than female. Then they respect male more so they come all out with everything. Then we met my wife's relatives at the same time. It was a enjoyable 00:40:00time I had over there. And another thing, we were getting off going to Japan. During the wartime we were scrutinized by the FBI here too.

STEVE KOLMAN: The whole family was?

AKIRA TOKI: Whole family yeah. See the American Legion backed my father and mother up and all the neighbors--they had talked to all the neighbors around the neighborhood to see what kind of characters we were. We were clean. Only restriction they had was they couldn't travel and the money, they froze their 00:41:00money too. So we couldn't get it out of the bank. When they bombed Pearl Harbor, about three or four weeks [thereafter], my dad couldn't go to town because the American Legion people told, don't go to town, we'll come out after it. Our grocery run--we used to deliver produce to the grocery store. They said, they'll come out and get it.

STEVE KOLMAN: Because they were afraid of people acting out against your dad?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, yeah. So they're protecting us. So they treated my father and mother--they protected us pretty good, so no harm done to our family at all. So, you know, I mean during the war--in those times you never know what people 00:42:00think. So, what they--even the Chief of Police-everyone came out to the house, and the sheriff. They were all sociable and looked after us. I didn't have no worries about that part when I was in the service.

STEVE KOLMAN: As you were getting into the service and early on before there was this whole to do about whether the Japanese soldiers could fight or not, did you--I don't know what the word is--fear or were you afraid that you might get deployed to the Pacific to fight against the Japanese or would You have preferred to go to Europe, was that not even a consideration? I know that I've talked to a couple of people--particularly some Italian folks--who were feeling 00:43:00very nervous about having to fight in Europe.

AKIRA TOKI: Well, to me it's him or I. And if I was facing a Japanese soldier--I'm going to survive. I'm not going to let him get me. That's my idea. I knew we weren't going to the Pacific at that time because they were--well, they didn't have too much trust in us anyway at that time because the army feared that we might stray over on their side, to the enemy's side. Or the enemy would take us for a spy or something, things like that. So both sides were 00:44:00afraid something will happen to all of us. So they just kept us separated so that's why we went to Europe. But towards the end of the war, when Europe was all done, we were slated to go to Japan, our regimental combat team was ready to go to Japan on one days notice. But then they canceled that so we didn't go. So I think they were, those guys, were willing to go, they were willing to go to the Pacific.

STEVE KOLMAN: Do you think it was even--just really to prove something that the Asian soldiers could be trusted?

AKIRA TOKI: I think that that was a big thing there, try to prove that we were good Americans. Because that 's--well, I think the same thing in Europe. While some of the other white soldiers couldn't do it, they put us there [into the most dangerous combat situations]. We've done it and we succeeded. We had our pride and we had our being loyal Americans and we had to prove something that what we were see.

STEVE KOLMAN: This is sort of getting ahead of us a little bit. Do you think that the people who were in charge of deploying teams and units one place or . . . all sort of took advantage of that, putting the 442nd in a lot of particularly 00:46:00hairy situations and always being at the very front?

AKIRA TOKI: That's true, that's true. We were specialized to--We were taken advantage of then. They knew we would do the job. So we were--I don't know, it's hard to say because we were in places where no other people would have Went. So whenever the higher command said, "Go do it," we did it, without any regret or 00:47:00anything. So that's why we had so much casualties and all of that.

STEVE KOLMAN: I think I read that the 442nd had more purple hearts than any other fighting unit.

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah. I think if the higher command said we had to go, we went regardless of what the situation was. They knew we would get that objective done. What they found out was, when the 100th battalion first went over there to Anzio and Salerno, they proved that they were gung-ho and trustworthy and kept 00:48:00their end of the deal up. So then, see then when the 442 went over there to join the 100th battalion we worked together and we done the job. So our motive was to do it, get it over with, regardless of casualties we had. So it's a I don't know, I don't know how else you could explain that.

STEVE KOLMAN: Let me just ask you one other question about Camp McCoy, talking 00:49:00about the 100th. How did you and your family find out about--and you said these soldier came down independently--even when you weren't home, to stay, how did they find out about your parents, how did your parents find out about them, how did this sort of line get established?

AKIRA TOKI: Oh, how they get established? Well, they the Japanese soldiers from Camp McCoy came down to the state capitol to parade, they had a parade for them at the state capitol. Then my mother and my sister were downtown doing shopping and they spotted them and then they came and talked to her. They must have asked her if you're Japanese or what see. So they befriended them. They befriended a 00:50:00lot of other people when they came to Madison. Madison did treat the 100th battalion real good because I think people were more open minded about it. Well, I don't know how to say it, there was hysteric [about the Japanese] but not as bad as they think it was.

STEVE KOLMAN: Do you think it was somewhat better in Wisconsin than in other places? I mean from what I've read it seems that for the most part the soldiers from the 100th were treated very well by the communities around Camp McCoy--Sparta, La Crosse.

AKIRA TOKI: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. They were treated real good, yeah.

STEVE KOLMAN: Do you think it was better in Wisconsin than it was in other 00:51:00places that you were?

AKIRA TOKI: Well…

STEVE KOLMAN: Outside of Camp?

AKIRA TOKI: I know we weren't treated very good at Camp Robinson, Arkansas. At Camp Grant we were treated alright but I mean there's still a little hostility or whatever you want to-- little hard feeling there. So we had a kind of stay cool you know. Well, then we went to Blanding, it was pretty good down there. We went all over, every place when we had a three day pass or over the weekend. We'd go to Jacksonville, Orlando, Daytona Beach. They didn't bother us at all.

STEVE KOLMAN: So was there just more respect for the uniform [in certain places]?

AKIRA TOKI: I think so I think so. Well then another thing is, another incident is, I got on the bus--see, they were segregated, blacks and whites were segregated.

STEVE KOLMAN: This is in Florida?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah. I got on a bus, there were a lot of room in the back but two white ladies wouldn't let me go back there. They wouldn't let me go back there. I would have went back there and sat down comfortably but they said, "No, don't go back there." They moved over, and they made me sit right there with them in the front. Those are little incidents, you know.

STEVE KOLMAN: That's amazing. So do you suppose it was better in Florida for the Japanese because they already had someone that they were prejudiced against? 00:53:00They didn't need the Asians?

AKIRA TOKI: Maybe, I don't know. [laughs] I don't know. Those two ladies they just moved over to one side of the seat and they made me sit there. Those little incidents, you know, I mean--It makes you feel good, but I mean it's still--you're different color you know. So we were a little better than the blacks at that time. [laugh] And then we couldn't go in the black bathroom, but we'd go in the white one. Then at the restaurant they didn't put us where the 00:54:00blacks were either.

STEVE KOLMAN: Coming from Wisconsin, this must have all seemed really alien to you. What was your reaction to all the segregation in the South?

AKIRA TOKI: I knew about it and I kind of expected it, you know. I don't know, maybe it just--I thought I was just like a white person. I thought I was just like a white person. I don't know about the rest of the Oriental boys, I don't know what they thought. To me, just like I said before, I thought I was a white boy. Actually I wasn't. [laugh]

STEVE KOLMAN: There were very few blacks in Madison at the time.

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, there were very few, very few. Because the first black person I had was in high school and he, when he was going to high school, well, he couldn't share a locker with a white person very easy. So he had his locker with me. So I took him. I took him under my wing and shared my locker with him. So that's only segregation I ever knew, you know.

AKIRA TOKI: So I'm not prejudiced, I don't know too much about it. Because I 00:56:00learned a lot more when I was in the Army. That's where I learned about it.

STEVE KOLMAN: I'm just curious, did it seem sort of strange to you that there you were in a segregated unit in the South but then treated as white off base?

AKIRA TOKI: [Laughs] I know, I know. I don't know, that I never gave a thought, what I thought at that time. Well I guess I figured just like I said before, I 00:57:00thought I was a white person. So that never entered my mind at all. I don't know, I can't answer no other way about that, that part there.

STEVE KOLMAN: What was your treatment like from the other soldiers on these bases? From white soldiers? Well, we were, I think we were kind of careful not to antagonize them because we didn't want a gang war in the camp. But like when we're at Camp Shelby we had a gang war there. We were all non-comms and the other 442 guys were just privates. They used to come beat us up all the time. 00:58:00[laughs] I think most of the guys were careful not to antagonize the white people too much. But if they did get in a fight, well, those guys, a lot of those Hawaiian guys, and like the kids from the West Coast, they knew Judo and stuff like that. So they used to throw those big guys around.

STEVE KOLMAN: I read a story about a huge brawl at Camp McCoy between the 1OOth and some unit from Texas.

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, Texas, yeah. That's true. I know several of the guys that were in that brawl and I know a truck driver that used to haul those kids back and forth. [laugh] He lives in town. He tells me that how he used to pick them up 00:59:00and throw them in the truck to go back to camp. He said those guys were flying out the door. [laugh] So they kind of respect each other, so after they found out us little guys were just as tough as the big six foot, six footers. So it kind of evened out, so then they kind of respect each other.

STEVE KOLMAN: Who were your officers at this time?

AKIRA TOKI: Before I went Overseas?

STEVE KOLMAN: Yeah.

AKIRA TOKI: They were all Caucasian officers. Some of them I didn't like. [laugh] But the majority of them were--they were nice to us. They were warned 01:00:00before that they better behave when we were there with them. Not to show any prejudice, all that kind of stuff you know. So it worked out pretty good that way.

STEVE KOLMAN: Were most of these officers--were they assigned to Asian units? I mean did they have a choice? Could they have said, "Well, I don't know if I want to have an Asian unit?"

AKIRA TOKI: Some of them objected. Some of them were, you know, some of them objected being with us, with the Oriental soldiers. But after they found out 01:01:00what kind of guys we were, then they kind of melted down and understood us. Well, I think when you have any other--when you join a group like that and you don't have any knowledge of what kind of character of people they are or what kind of person they are, you have kind of a hard feeling or something in there that you don't want to be with them or something. So it's a give and take and that's what. It mainly is to get them to understand you and you understand him.

STEVE KOLMAN: Do you think that was less of a problem for you than for some of the other guys?

AKIRA TOKI: I think so because I didn't mind white officers at all because they--well, I could say something to a white officer, you know, and the white officer say something to me, you know, it might offend other Oriental guys but it didn't offend me because I knew what he was trying to say to me. So then I'd throw it back at him. So that's the advantage I had a little bit, knowing the white officer. If the white officer had kept throwing dirt at me, well I 01:03:00wouldn't have nothing to do with him. I just wouldn't do half the things what he told me to do.

STEVE KOLMAN: Were there other Asians in service, non-Japanese Asians? You mentioned the Chinese guy you went off [to Fort Sheridan] with, but were Japanese segregated from other Asians ethnicities as well, the different nationalities?

AKIRA TOKI: You mean in our group you mean?

STEVE KOLMAN: Well, did you see I mean Chinese soldiers around or Korean soldiers?

AKIRA TOKI: No, no no. No, we didn't see--only segregation soldiers I saw were the black soldiers. There were whole division of them. That's the only 01:04:00segregation I saw was the blacks and the Japanese soldiers. I didn't see no Chinese or Filipinos or Indians or anything like that. Just the two color--black and yellow. [laugh]

STEVE KOLMAN: You spoke Japanese at the time?

AKIRA TOKI: No.

STEVE KOLMAN: You didn't speak at all, okay. Did a lot of the guys in the unit speak Japanese?

AKIRA TOKI: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

STEVE KOLMAN: Was this a problem for you then?

AKIRA TOKI: Well, in a way it is but when they talk to me or talk to officers they talk English. I think a lot of them talked English among themselves, too. But the only time we ever used Japanese was sending code through the, oh the 01:05:00radio or through the telephone so nobody would know what we're talking about. Because see the Hawaiian kids, they talk funny anyway. They got that, you don't say, you no go, [giving examples of how the Hawaiian soldiers spoke] all that kind of.--they chop everything up see. Well I had a hard time understanding them too at first. [laugh] So I mean, so a language barrier wasn't nothing that drastic about me being only an English speaker. Because I didn't talk any Japanese at home. Right now I talk a little bit of Japanese because I hear words here and there you know and then I kind of figure out what it means so it's 01:06:00stuck back in my head somewhere and I use it every once in awhile. So the language barrier wasn't nothing to that. Me being with them. Because they had to talk English to these Caucasian officers. If you talk to Japanese to them they won't understand it. [laugh]

STEVE KOLMAN: I guess I was wondering if guys used to use Japanese to sort of--they would speak English to the officers but then Japanese amongst yourselves so the officers would get excluded.

AKIRA TOKI: No, no, we talked English, most of them did.

STEVE KOLMAN: So then after all this time--you'd been in the service two years by the time you shipped out almost what was your reaction on finally realizing that you were really going to go over and fight?

AKIRA TOKI: I don't know. I didn't have no reaction.

STEVE KOLMAN: Were you happy to finally be doing what you'd gotten into the Army for?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah. Getting to see the other side of the world, what was going on. Well, I think mentally I was carefree. I mean I had nothing to worry about. Well, happy-go-lucky, carefree, looking for adventure. I know it's a terrible 01:08:00adventure to go to but I think that's what it was.

STEVE KOLMAN: I think that's pretty common though. I think a lot of people go to war with that kind of an attitude.

AKIRA TOKI: So, I mean, so I didn't have any idea that I was going to not make it or anything. I think the main job was me going over there and get it done and get it over with and then Come back.

STEVE KOLMAN: Do you think that kind of attitude helps you, helps you get through?

AKIRA TOKI: Oh yeah, I think so. I think if your mind is carefree and happy-go-lucky, don't give a darn and don't think of too much danger or anything, you come back. You come back in one whole piece. That's what kind of 01:09:00attitude I had. I had nothing to worry about at home or anything. The only thing was to survive over there. So it's just like a carefree life. I think it's people that worry about stuff, you know, worry about home and family, they're usually the ones that were wounded heavily or got killed, things like that. Because I know several of the boys were married and they were killed over there. 01:10:00- Single guys, the majority of them came back. Because I wasn't married at the time. I was just a happy-go-lucky person.

STEVE KOLMAN: Since we're on the topic, did you have any opportunity for social life during all this? Meeting women or . . .

AKIRA TOKI: Oh yeah. I think that's part of the being over there. [laugh] Well, we had our own brothels. Our medics took care of that. They had physical examinations--women had physical examinations from our medics and things like 01:11:00that. We were protected from disease, too. So I think that's what part of the war is -- the people's mind are different than they are at the present time see. [dog begins to make a bit of noise]

STEVE KOLMAN: Was this both at home and overseas?

AKIRA TOKI: No overseas.

STEVE KOLMAN: Just overseas?

AKIRA TOKI: Over here well I think over here we behaved a little more different than we were over there.

STEVE KOLMAN: What sorts of things would you do for social life when you were in service before you shipped out?

AKIRA TOKI: Oh go to shows and go to USO and things like that. Play pool, ping 01:12:00pong. Then we'd go eat. Look for a Chinese restaurant or something like that. Then when we'd come home I use to come home eat then I'd go to USO play pool or things like that.

STEVE KOLMAN: Was there any opportunity to meet girls during any of this?

AKIRA TOKI: When I was in Madison?

STEVE KOLMAN: Just when you were in the service in various places.

AKIRA TOKI: Oh Yeah, we met all kinds of girls. Because--see when I was at Camp Grant, when you're working in the mess hall, then when you're not on duty you just go to town. Get a pass and go to town and socialize in town. Go drink, get 01:13:00drunk. I even attempted to--I even went to business school when I was at Camp Grant. When my mind wasn't--I was bookkeeping. Then the girls would invite us over to their house to eat, things like that.

STEVE KOLMAN: So you'd go to USO dances and things like that?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah. Well I think we behaved better when they're on this side then we were over there. Because when you're over there you don't know when you're going to come back so you just go all out.

STEVE KOLMAN: When you were overseas, who were these women, just local women?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, they were local. They had a--a Madame took care of those women. So the madame has two, maybe six, seven girls that she has under her wing and then they get checked by our medics. The only thing, to tell you the truth is, they didn't let no blacks in there. They were blacks were off bounds. [laugh] See that's prejudice there.

STEVE KOLMAN: So as Japanese soldiers you didn't run into too much in the way of 01:15:00prejudice in Europe?

AKIRA TOKI: Uh uh. No, they respected us. The other soldiers respected us. If we got into a big fight with another group of soldiers, another group of soldiers that knew us, they'd pitch in right in there and bounce the other guys out. Whoever started the fight they get bounced out. Because you were outnumbered, see. So we were- -anybody that knew us really respected us over there because they knew we would, if they were in combat, we would keep our end of the deal up 01:16:00with them, see. Wouldn't let them down. Because like they come back to the 92nd division that was an all black division, they were in Italy, and we--there was a line that was stationary and the Germans are on one side and they had a white division in back of them because the Germans were making a monkey out of the black guys up in front line. They were pushing them back, pushing them back, pushing them back and they were losing ground. So they put the American, uh, white division in back of them so if the black backed up they would only have got shot in the back end so they couldn't move see. So the Germans kept pushing 01:17:00the black guys back till the black guys were in the middle there. So they had to stay there and fight. So that division was broken up into an all American division. One battalion of black, one battalion of white boys and us guys.

STEVE KOLMAN: When you went over with the 442, had the 100th already been deployed?

AKIRA TOKI: Oh Yeah. They'd been there for quite awhile. I didn't go with the 442 now. I went as a replacement. See, I was a second replacement. The first replacement went there and I was the second replacement. The 100th was there 01:18:00already. They fought up Anzio and Salerno.

STEVE KOLMAN: Right, because they landed in Anzio in late 1943.

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah Yeah. Then they went up to Rome. When they went to Rome the 442 guys joined up, the whole regiment of 442 guys went there.

STEVE KOLMAN: So where did you join?

AKIRA TOKI: When I joined them?

STEVE KOLMAN: Where were they when you joined them?

AKIRA TOKI: They were up there by Pisa, Livorno. They were up there. Then they came back and then we formed in Naples. Because I landed in Naples. And then they wanted us, all of guys into each company and I ended up in the 100th battalion.

STEVE KOLMAN: Okay, so what was your full designation. You were 100th battalion, what company?

AKIRA TOKI: I was A Company on the 100th battalion on the 442 combat team. Infantry combat team.

STEVE KOLMAN: So you sailed directly from the United States. Where did you sail from?

AKIRA TOKI: Newport News [Virginia] and went directly across.

STEVE KOLMAN: Directly to Naples?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah.

STEVE KOLMAN: What was the whole transport like?

AKIRA TOKI: It was a convoy so we zigzagged all the way across. We were on the English boat--English troop carrier--so we, you know, they had escorts on both 01:20:00sides of us and we had to do guard duty, all that kind of stuff. Because we had Air Force guys on our ship too. Those were mixed groups. Only trouble was the Air Force guys, they were trying to make us K-P duty and all that kind of stuff so there was hard feeling on the boat. [laugh]

STEVE KOLMAN: So what did you do?

AKIRA TOKI: Well I was in charge of one group and they were giving us a hard time, I said, I told the guy, to hell with them, let's go back down. So he left it. So they didn't ask us anymore.

STEVE KOLMAN: What was your rank at this point?

AKIRA TOKI: I was a Corporal.

STEVE KOLMAN: And what was your final rank?

AKIRA TOKI: Sergeant.

STEVE KOLMAN: So then you got to Naples and then what happened?

AKIRA TOKI: Oh then we regrouped, then they take us to France. Invasion of southern France but the invasion was already way up into central France already at that time. So the Germans were again pushed back, we were rapidly up into central France. So we got off the boat in southern France and then we got on trucks and trains and got up to the front line that way.

STEVE KOLMAN: Was this the whole 442 at this point or just the replacements?

AKIRA TOKI: The whole 442, the whole regimental team. That includes our field 01:22:00artillery, cannon company, everything--medics, the whole regiment went. So we went up into central France. That's where we went. Into the woods, forest. So that's where I saw my first combat--there. There was a place where nothing but woods, trees. So we had to fight like Indians. From tree to tree we had to go.

STEVE KOLMAN: Had anything that you'd done before this prepared you for this? Had any of the training?

AKIRA TOKI: Not this kind of training. This is something new and different 01:23:00because well, even when Germans threw artillery shell artillery shell would burst in the trees and explode and the shrapnels fly any direction. So you don't know when you're going to get hit. So each one of us, of the twelve men, each one of us carried two entrenching tools to dig in. We had a shovel and an axe. A couple of other guys would have a pick and a shovel. Anything to chop a tree down and cover the top of the foxhole so the shrapnel won't get us when we stopped.

STEVE KOLMAN: When was this, was this winter?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, toward winter. Cold, wet. Just like the other days rain. So it's dark. So it's a--see we had tanks attached to us. We had [end of tape two, side one].

STEVE KOLMAN: So you were actually physically pulling this stuff through the woods? You were on the team that was leading the rest of the equipment through?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, yeah. We were the front line. Well, they had tanks running along side of us too, but I mean tanks can't move like human beings through the 01:25:00trees. If they went too fast they'd get hung up on a tree or get stuck there so they had to kind of wiggle around through the trees.

STEVE KOLMAN: How bad were causalities for you guys at this point?

AKIRA TOKI: Not too bad at that point. Not too bad. So I don't know, I might have lost one man or something like that at that point. This is the first experience for the rest of the guys too, especially in the Woods because when they were in Italy it was all mountains and open terrain. But France, that was another ball of wax. Well in fact you couldn't--when it gets dark, we couldn't see--I couldn't see you either it was so dark in there.

STEVE KOLMAN: Right, because of the tree cover.

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah. No light.

STEVE KOLMAN: How was morale in general?

AKIRA TOKI: You mean our morale?

STEVE KOLMAN: Yeah.

AKIRA TOKI: It was good. It was pretty good.

STEVE KOLMAN: I mean it tended to stay pretty up?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, yeah. Because we never--well, We used to bitch but I mean nothing at somebody I mean it's a--well we did everything what we were told to do and we done it. So the morale wasn't bad at all. For us, anyway.

STEVE KOLMAN: So what did you do then? As you worked your way through France what happened then, what was going on at this point?

AKIRA TOKI: Well, I think we stayed up on the front lines a week I think. Then 01:27:00we came back, changed our clothes, took a bath, then we rested about a week then went back up in line then went to a town of Bruyere. There we liberated that town. So that was a house-to-house fight. Through the woods we went--down into the valley we went. We had some casualties there, too, but not as much. So I think we went up there about two weeks, then we went to Ville Fontaine, then we 01:28:00went to Bellemar. I think we took three towns. I think at Bruyere we got cut off for a little while. One side of the line--the French side didn't keep up with us so the Germans got in behind us. They got in behind us so we…

STEVE KOLMAN: So you were fighting alongside the Independent French?

AKIRA TOKI: French, yeah. So the French couldn't keep up with us so the Germans came in behind us and cut us off. So we were isolated there for a couple of days. Then another group came through and they plugged up that hole.

STEVE KOLMAN: What was the reaction of the people in these towns to the 01:29:00liberation and to being liberated by Japanese?

AKIRA TOKI: They didn't know what the hell we were. laugh Even the Germans didn't know what--Germans thought we were on the wrong side. But they didn't know what we were. But after they found us they treat us--see right now, in that town of Bruyere, there's a monument there now for the 442. So whenever we have a reunion they invite those people from over there come to Hawaii for a visit. All expense paid. So, I mean, those French people were real good to us. They were 01:30:00happy that they were free. No it's, on a whole they didn't--I mean they didn't treat us bad at all. I think if you we were on this side, in this country, maybe we would have been treated as we were treated over there. It must have meant more to them being free than what the Americans think over here. So it's on a 01:31:00whole, I think they were really happy to see us because they were under that German domination for so long and they were getting deprived of everything. The Germans took everything away from them, include food and all. So they had a hard time. So, see--oh, it must be over five or six years ago I found my footsteps back there. I went back to that town of Bruyere and up in that area. I took my family and my wife with me that time. So it was interesting. And it's all 01:32:00rebuilt. You don't see any remnants of war or nothing anymore. Those people were nice to us over there. I forgot my French [laughs] so I couldn't talk to them very good. But it was interesting. But then from there we pulled back off the line, got our new clothes and that and all of that and then we rested for two days, get called up again. We were supposed to have a week off and we got called 01:33:00up. So then there was a lost battalion--that number 36--and nobody could get them out. They had their own regiments that were trying to get them out and couldn't get them out. So they called us and we were under [full regimental] strength already, you know, the few casualties we had. We had no full complement of men in Our group any more. So we went after them. I think we got up--they woke us up about two o'clock in the morning, told us to take off. Well, anyway we could see the artillery markers, you know, the markers the way they point 01:34:00their guns to. We could see that. But otherwise it was so dark we had to hang on to each other. We had to hang on to each other to walk. Then we got to that line and I think it took us four days, four or five days to get them out. And there were--I think there were 275 men trapped in there. By the time we got done with that I had only 21 men left in my companies and some companies only had seven.

STEVE KOLMAN: Out of how many?

AKIRA TOKI: The whole regiment. That includes front line soldiers--guys like B Company, A Company and C Company, E, F and G, H Company, I Company. So there 01:35:00were about 200 men in each company supposed to be. We were under strength anyway when we went there see. Like We had only 21 men left in Our company. Some Companies only had seven by the time we got—

STEVE KOLMAN: How many men had you gone in with?

AKIRA TOKI: I don't know exactly because we were under strength anyway. And I only had one man left in my squad out of 12 men. See, they were either killed or wounded. It was a situation, it was real tough place to be and a couple of the companies they went like it was a landing charge. They took the bayonet out 01:36:00[mounted them on their rifles] and charged the hill--broke through the line. See, that's how crazy we were. [Yells at dog trying to escape from the basement] We only had 275 men in there with what we lost. So it was a-- after we got done with that we came off of that we had dress parade. The general came to inspect us. He asked the Colonel, where the hell are all your men, after the lost 01:37:00battalion. He darn near died when he saw how many [how few] of us guys were left. Well we got our Presidential citation for it but I mean what is that you know, with all that casualty we had? And that area, we had to go yard by yard to move up to that lost battalion. One day we made twenty five or one hundred yards, then we can't go any farther because there were tanks or Stuff in the road. The One place where I was a tank shot a tree, top of the tree right off of 01:38:00the top of it. Boy, that made a hell of a racket. I rolled out of there in a hurry. Yeah it went boom, when the top of the tree came down. I guess one of the guys got the tank, too. So anyway that's how we went, a little, about 500 yards at a time.

STEVE KOLMAN: Was there any, I mean, with the casualties this high, I mean get back to what we were talking about before--why the 442 was chosen for this 01:39:00mission. Do you feel like maybe the higher ups saw you as more expendable?

AKIRA TOKI: Possibly, possibly. I think so. I kind of believe that. See the other guys couldn't get them out. Two other guys went to go get them out. Then they take us up there under strength and we get them out. But how we done it why we done it, I don't know. I think just the upper echelon told us to do it, we did it. It's crazy. It's like when the General saw us on this dress parade 01:40:00review, he was surprised at how big our group was at that time. What are you going to do with 21 guys in the company, or seven in the company? Line up in dress parade in front there, nobody behind you, no more G.I.'s behind you or nothing, just one straight line. It's pathetic in a way, or sad, what we had to do and what the upper echelon told us to do. But we done it. So that's where our purple heart and all of our medal of honor and all of that kind of stuff is 01:41:00from. It's something that I think we had to prove to the people back home that we were trustworthy and loyal, being with our high casualties. And to earn our respect from everybody else. I mean a lot of people don't like to hear me say that. Well, then that's what it amounts to, to me. Because see my Wife was at [internment] camp when I wasn't married to her yet then but she was in camp then 01:42:00she came home. So I mean I think we had to prove that all this war hysterics they had at that time--that it wasn't necessary. We had to do those things. Well, I don't know--we try to have fun up in the front lines too. Try to keep our morale up and do crazy things. Like on patrol, you know when you ... go patrolling towards the enemy line, well we go raid cabbage patch and onion 01:43:00fields and everything else we could bring home, you carried back and you cooked that with Spam and all of that kind of stuff. Eat it see. Catch a chicken. Anything we could get a hold of we done. Only think I know, I'll tell you this much, was we captured a German chow wagon, horse-drawn German chow wagon. They had potato soup in there. Oh, that was terrible stuff. We shot the horse and captured the cook, and captured the potato soup. God, that was terrible stuff. [laughs]. It was the worst potato soup. But at least we deprived the enemy not 01:44:00having this potato soup for their evening or noon time. [laugh] No, we did a lot of funny things like that. Go on patrol and carry back anything we could find we'd eat. Because we'd get tired of eating Spam and all of that kind of stuff. I still won't eat Spam. [laughs]. That's the only way to keep alive, do those things.

STEVE KOLMAN: So as you were moving across France, slowly but surely did you 01:45:00start to get the feeling that the war was slowly petering down or no?

AKIRA TOKI: No. I know the Germans were getting pushed back. See our winter objective was Strasbourg but we didn't get there. So we ended up--it took us--Our casualties was so high we were down in manpower they took us off the front line. Then they brought us down to southern France, around Nice, Cannes. We were down in that area. So we had a champagne war going on down there. So we were up in the mountains then, too. At that time one of our groups captured a German submarine, two-man Submarine, too. But I was up in the mountains over 01:46:00there. Then we regrouped. We got more guys from the states so we brought ourselves up to full strength again. So we taught the new guys all the combat tactics and gave them a little dress rehearsal what's going on over there in the mountains. We had mine fields set up and all that kind of stuff. Then they took us all--they took all of our equipment away from us. Even our rifles and everything. They put us on a landing barge. They took us back to Italy to Po Valley.

STEVE KOLMAN: Why?

AKIRA TOKI: Why? Well, they want to finish up Italy, Italy campaign. So that's where that 92nd Division was. See that 92nd and the 34th were all there. We were attached to the 34th before so--they were. But 92nd, we were never attached to them before. They put us all on this landing ship and brought us back to Italy. They gave us all new equipment, everything new. A shining spanking new. Guns and 01:48:00all. I guess they done that to keep our morale up II suppose. Something to keep our mind busy. So we went up to--we pushed off of Po Valley and we finished up that campaign in Italy. By that time the Germans surrendered too, at the same time. That's when I got hurt. On the first day of the Po Valley push. The funny 01:49:00part of that was see they sent five of us to a demolition school, so they taught us how to detonate, how to dig out mines and blow those away with dynamite and all of that kind of stuff. But all five of us got hurt the first day. laugh. So I didn't finish up the Po Valley at all. I was hurt the first day. So I was back in the hospital. But then they had me in the hospital, they sent me back to Naples to the hospital, they was going to send me home. I said I didn't want to 01:50:00go home. So they put me on a boat and sent me back up to join my group again.

STEVE KOLMAN: In France?

AKIRA TOKI: No, in Italy. In Po Valley. Po Valley was real nice, beautiful. We stayed at Lake Como. That was a really a beautiful place. We stayed there, then we went to another lace where they had prisoner of war camp, German prisoner camp. It was a airport, Gedi. It was a big airport there. We stayed there and guarded the German prisoners there till I was ready to come home.

STEVE KOLMAN: So is that where you were when the war ended?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah, I was in--when the war ended I was in the hospital. I was in the hospital. I think i played kind of possum. I thought I had enough so--I had 01:51:00a million dollar wound anyways.

STEVE KOLMAN: What was your wound?

AKIRA TOKI: I got hit in the head. It had penetrated my skull but it didn't do no damage or anything to me. I walked off the hill by myself to the aid station.

STEVE KOLMAN: And this was trying to detonate a mine?

AKIRA TOKI: No, no. An artillery shell got me. Well, see I didn't have the experience of digging up mines or anything because I was hurt already.

STEVE KOLMAN: Oh, you never even got to the demolition school?

AKIRA TOKI: No, no I got to demolition school but I didn't have no experience on digging up or blowing anything away. See I was equipped with everything. With 01:52:00pins and rope, everything. I was equipped with that. They gave me all that equipment to do those kind of things but I didn't have that experience. [laugh] So I ended up in the hospital in Italy till the end of the war. In the meantime they sent me down to southern Italy to Naples, wanted to send me home but I didn't want to go home.

STEVE KOLMAN: So why didn't you want to go home even though the war was over at this point?

AKIRA TOKI: Oh, I don't know. I just wanted to rejoin my guys in my group again because I was the only one that was hurt out of the 12 men that I had. They were 01:53:00lucky, but I was unlucky at that time. [end of tape two side two]

AKIRA TOKI: . . . he laid on top of grenade, German grenade, to save two of his buddies in a foxhole. He came through while I was going through to the lost battalion, too. See in Italy was a different kind of terrain again. No woods or 01:54:00nothing, just bare ground. Nothing but rocks. I think the reason I got hit was I couldn't go down in the ground deep enough.

STEVE KOLMAN: You were trying to dig at the time?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah. Then I got one of my men to come up to me and patch me up and I told my assistant to take over and then I left, I went down the hill to the aid Station. Then at the aid station they made me look worse then I was [laugh] Then they loaded me in a field ambulance, took me to a field hospital. Then I 01:55:00laid there for about three, four hours before they got to me. I was conscious, I wasn't suffering too much. So that's when I said that I'd got a million dollar wound. But then they made it look worse. Then they sent me back to the general hospital, big hospital. When I went back to company they were glad to see me but--then we did, you know, POW guard, all that kind of stuff. Then I had too many points. They made me come home. Because of length of service, length of combat time, all that added up, so I-- sent me back to Naples again and then 01:56:00they put me on a liberty ship, or cargo ship, then we went to Africa to put ballast in the boat. It was empty, see. They were probably hundreds of us guys on it but that was not heavy enough so they put iron ore in the bottom of the boat to keep us from tipping over. [laugh] Then we, on the way home, we hit a big storm in the Atlantic Ocean on Thanksgiving Day. So the boat was going up 01:57:00like this and down like this, up like this and going this way and this way. [Indicating the rocking motion of a ship in a storm]. We had Thanksgiving Day standing up. But the dishes were going this way. [sliding back and forth on the table] You don't know whose dish you were eating out of. Then it would come back, it would go past you, you'd be eating out of someone else's dish.

STEVE KOLMAN: I'm surprised you felt like eating at all.

AKIRA TOKI: Well--we didn't eat too much. Most of the guys were sick. But then in the meantime the boat was going ahead but it was sliding backwards too, because every time the boat went up over the top of the wave, that propeller would be sticking out of the water and there it would be grinding away in mid air. Then when we got back to Newport News, before we landed, we found out that 01:58:00boat had a cracked seam. [laugh]

STEVE KOLMAN: It's better they didn't tell you on the way and they just told you after you got back.

AKIRA TOKI: I know, I know. Yeah, yeah. If they told you have a cracked seam I don't know what I would have done. [laugh]

STEVE KOLMAN: I can't imagine. What was it like to be in a hospital abroad during the war?

AKIRA TOKI: They took care of us. Because another time--I was in the hospital twice; had hemorrhoids in the hospital. That was nice because that happened to me at Christmas time. [laughs]

STEVE KOLMAN: It was a bad time to have hemorrhoids but it was nice to sleep in clean sheets and get a hot bath and food and I got my Christmas present at the hospital. Or the goody package or whatever you'd call it. So, it wasn't bad. They took care of you. See they had some native aides there taking care of you too. Not just nurses and doctors but they had native nurses, or whatever you want to call it, taking care of you. So, they took us real good--and some of the 02:00:00guys all joked, joked around about having a good time in there.

STEVE KOLMAN: They didn't keep the Japanese segregated in the hospital did they?

AKIRA TOKI: No, no, no. We were all among everybody else. Only time was, when I was wounded, only problem was they kept you up every three hours. They'd come and shoot you with penicillin all the time. Every three hours they come up, they shake you up, they shoot you in the hind end. [laugh] So I'm allergic to penicillin. So penicillin, they won't give me anymore. Anyway, I enjoyed the 02:01:00Christmas time when I was in the hospital for hemorrhoids. That's the only time I enjoyed. But then they tried to kick me out Christmas Eve, out of the hospital. I said, I don't want to go home back to the company Christmas Eve. So they kept me overnight. I went back the next morning to the Company.

STEVE KOLMAN: So where were you then at V-J Day? Were you back up in the Po Valley by that point?

AKIRA TOKI: You mean V-J Day? Gee. I think I went up from Po Valley. See I came home December 5, 1945 I think it was-- so I was in Po Valley. It was nice up 02:02:00there, warm up there. But when I came home I froze to death. [laugh] I couldn't get enough clothes on. Yeah, Po Valley was a beautiful place. Especially that Lake Como, I liked that.

STEVE KOLMAN: When you were up there and you heard obviously about the war with Japan ending. Had you heard about the bomb, about the atomic bomb or you did you just know that the war was over?

AKIRA TOKI: That I can't remember, if I knew about that bomb. I can't remember that. That's something I very vaguely don't remember at all.

STEVE KOLMAN: What was homecoming like? How long before you got from, when you got to Newport News and till you came back to home?

AKIRA TOKI: Oh, let's see. Got home December 5 so I was--I don't know how long I was on the sea, but I know when they disembarked us at Newport News and put us on the train and on the way the train stopped somewhere along the line I know I jumped off the train--there was an ice cream shop across the street, across the 02:04:00track. So I ran over there and got a pint of ice cream. Got back on the train. I ate the whole pint. Then I came to Fort Sheridan. I don't think I stayed for one day. I didn't even stay there a day. They processed us up and kicked us out and I think I was home-- yeah, I think I was home December 5--I mean in the meantime I must have been at a fort or somewheres along the line.

STEVE KOLMAN: So they just put you on a train at Fort Sheridan, sent you back to Madison?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah. Then I came home. No fanfare, nothing. Nobody met me at the station. Well, my father and mother maybe but nobody else. Then my father took 02:05:00me to town, got me clothes. So I got out of my uniform. I think I wore the uniform once since then. It don't fit anymore. [laugh] No, there was no fanfare or anything for me. No party. I was just lucky that I came home.

STEVE KOLMAN: Glad to be home?

AKIRA TOKI: Yeah. But I know I was real restless. I couldn't sit still like I am 02:06:00now. I wondered all over the living room and I'd sit down for a little while and then I'd get up and walk around. I think it was tension and nervousness.

STEVE KOLMAN: Did you have a lot of trouble getting use to being back here?

AKIRA TOKI: When I came home?

STEVE KOLMAN: Yes.

AKIRA TOKI: It was hard. At that time I wanted to go back in again. Yeah, I thought I wanted to go back in. Because they asked me at the separation camp if I want to go back in. They said they'd promote me in rank, too. At that time I 02:07:00wanted to get out. But, I don't know, I mean I had a hard time readjusting to civilian life at that time. I used to have flashbacks and all of that kind of stuff, you know, what I did. Well, I still do have flashbacks right now but not as bad as it used to be. Like these Vietnam veterans, they say that they have flashbacks and all of that. Well, anybody in the service that seen heavy combat 02:08:00gets those flashbacks back. Because some kind of memories come back. But the more I talk about it, it's much easier for me and just like I'm talking to you, and all this kind of stuff. You get it out of your system and it's much easier because I don't get as many flashback thoughts or anything like I used to do. So that's why when I talk to--when I'm at the VA Hospital when I talk to some of those patients I get them to talk. Lot of guys will talk amongst themselves. 02:09:00They relate their experience and you relate your--they relate they're experience and you relate your experience to them, the thing kind of works out and I think they'll feel much better. I think it relieves their pressure on the mind or wherever it's stored. So that's why I go talk at the kids, go to schools and places like that. Whenever they ask me in history class or social class, if the 02:10:00teachers invite me I go there and talk to the kids. To tell them. So they'll understand what it means to be in War and combat and what it's all about see. So it's something that you just have to make up your mind to do and let it out some day. And I don't mind talking to people. about my experience anymore because I think, to me, it gives them more knowledge to what it's all about. Just like 02:11:00these kids from the university, interviewed me every once in a while. I think it increased their knowledge more about things. So I don't know how you feel about that.

STEVE KOLMAN: I agree. When you look back at the whole wartime experience for yourself now, how has your life been different because of what you went through? Did this whole experience really change your life? How do you think you would have been different had you never gone to war?

AKIRA TOKI: I don't know because I never had that experience not being in the war. So I don't know. I think it would be changed and my thoughts would be thinking different and I'd be talking about different things. I mean I wouldn't be saying things that I know what I know now. So I don't know. That's something I can't--because I don't have that past experience as I had the present war experience that what I'm going through now. So I don't know. It's hard to say. 02:13:00[laugh] I don't know what other people say, I don't know about that.

STEVE KOLMAN: Do you think that being exposed to so many other Japanese Americans changed the way you saw yourself after the war, as a Japanese-American?

AKIRA TOKI: I think it has, yes. I think it has because they're just as human as I am. [laugh] Only the thoughts are different. I still--even there's 02:14:00Japanese-Americans that are living around here, you know. My ideas are different from there's, still yet because each individual they think different. Like with me, I'm more patriotic than most of the Japanese American kids that are around here. The war has imbedded that into me and then being amongst Caucasian people has lo to do with it too. I know lots of these Japanese-American kids around 02:15:00here politically they think different than I do and a lot of things they think different. Even my wife, I think different than her. We bump heads every once in awhile about it. I just think different than most Japanese American kids. Even those kids that went to war that I know, don't think like I do. See like I'm 02:16:00patriotic, I do military funerals and all of that. I'm still patriotic to this country and to the guys that I do military funeral for. So I don't know, I'm different in some way. I meant just like at the hospital, I talk to those guys and everybody knows me. Wherever I goes in the hospital some of the patients know me right away and talk to me. I think I must be different. I don't know. So 02:17:00I get along with everybody. And I could kid them, you know, I kid them along and tease them and make them laugh, Smile, things like that. Maybe I shouldn't have been a farmer, I should have been a psychiatrist or something. I don't know. So I just like to be around people, that's the trouble. And I just like to be- -and I like to be treated just like them. So that's the same thing in the service. In 02:18:00the service I always was crabbing because I wasn't treated right. I don't know, it's different, I'm different that's all. I don't know how you look at me, I don't know. I don't know if you can make anything out of what I'm telling you. [laugh].

STEVE KOLMAN: If you're getting all that together I don't know. If there's anything you'd like to mention that you feel like we haven't covered from this period.

AKIRA TOKI: I think we've done quite a bit, don't you think?