MARTEN: This is Bill Marten of the State Historical Society staff and I am
interviewing Mr. and Mrs. Isaac Berland in the Jewish Home for the Aged in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. This is Tuesday, February 20, 1962. Now, I was wondering are you--MR. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MARTEN: Shall I close this down?
MR. BERLAND: Yeah.
MARTEN: Just go right ahead and we'll go through this and I see that you were
born in 18--what was it, 1886--is that correct?MR. BERLAND: 1873.
[Inaudible]
MR. BERLAND: 1873, I was born.
MARTEN: 1873 in Russia and you came to the United States in 1906?
MR. BERLAND: 1906.
MARTEN: Yes, yes.
MR. BERLAND: With my family, [pause] my wife Paul and a kid, three-and-a-half
00:01:00years old [pause] by the name Tim. The rest of them, [pause] Sophia, Jack and Eric were bom here in the world.MARTEN: Don't let me disturb you. I just want to check that we are getting the
proper volume. Oh, then maybe if we go through the scrapbook, we can discuss some of the things that....MR. BERLAND: Well, I don't know, as you...I don't know-- as you wish, I don't
know, is it something to talk about?MARTEN: It will bring up the important events in your life, I believe.
MR. BERLAND: All right.
MARTEN: And-and if you would just like to discuss them from there or anything
else that you think of from that point, which reflects on the Madison Jewish Community or your own life.MR. BERLAND: I have been in Milwaukee all my life. It's just as I said, I was in
00:02:00the Jewish organization, the Zionist organization and some other things. In the young days, I wasn't able to do anything, because I was [pause] family man. I had to devote my time, your know, to my family. And I suppose that takes away time and money and that's why I never went to school here. My wife went to school.MARTEN: In this country?
MR. BERLAND: My wife went to school; I think she has her certificate here.
[mumbling] [page turning] Yes, here it is. Here is my wife's certificate. [laughter] She went to school. I gave her time--[pause] I gave her time to go to 00:03:00school and to be educated in order to bring up the children as-as America's supposed to have.MRS. BERLAND: We have a doctor, a lawyer, and a cooking chef [inaudible].
MARTEN: Very good.
MRS. BERLAND: One is a doctor, one is a lawyer, and the rest, the girls, are
supervisors of music.UNKNOWN: Um-hm, um-hm.
MARTEN: Well I imagine her musical background comes from you?
MRS. BERLAND: Yes.
MR. BERLAND: I am a little bit. Of course, I never-- I never used it.
MARTEN: Well, I notice that you played the violin.
MR. BERLAND: Yeah.
[Pause]
MARTEN: Maybe we can [pause] go at this somewhat chronologically. Oh, it says in
there that you were told to leave Russia within twenty-four hours. Did I--MR. BERLAND: No.
MARTEN: I'm sorry?
00:04:00MR. BERLAND: I-I left after the pogroms--if you know that word--that's an
expression, "pogroms." You know what it means?MARTEN: Yes.
MR. BERLAND: That was in Odessa. We lived in Odessa. [pause] Odessa is on the
Black Sea.MARTEN: Go right ahead. It's...
MR. BERLAND: In 1905, it was the Potemkin, the boat. [pause] Wha-what I should?
The ship, by name Potemkin. This was a military ship and the Soviets started to make a revolution there. They took that ship in their hands and they was out of [inaudible], that means they was out of supplies, whatever they need; so they 00:05:00came down to Odessa. [pause] All the soldiers of that boat, the sailors we will say, they come to Odessa. They wanna have have--the city should give them things what they need to go on. That means they were against the czar, you know? So when they come and they made a arrangement to come down in the city and to see the city mayor. And the city mayor should give them the [inaudible] they need. It means the things they need to go out. They didn't want.UNKNOWN: [Inaudible]
MARTEN: Am I interrupting?
[Inaudible]
00:06:00Marten: [Inaudible] I imagine another half hour. I [inaudible] I'm pretty sure
that we'll be able to finish in that time.UNKNOWN: I'm very sorry I don't know [inaudible].
MARTEN: No, that's fine.
[Pause]
UNKNOWN: Okay then I'll [inaudible] for you until you're ready.
MR. BERLAND: Thank you.
[Long pause]
MARTEN: So they...so they did get the supplies in Odessa?
MR. BERLAND: They did, yes, they did get, yes. But they couldn't get away. They
couldn't get away from Odessa, because the czar sent a...and they cossacks, they killed them right there by the...by the city of Odessa on the sea [inaudible] 00:07:00and after that, you know, I said to my wife--MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MR. BERLAND: Well, no. It-it is a 1905. Wasn't born yet. [Chuckling]
MARTEN: No, I wasn't born for some time.
[Pause]
MR. BERLAND: So that makes me to leave Russia and go away.
MARTEN: Um-hm.
MR. BERLAND: After that there were all kinds of bad times over there. I will
try...I tried to send out shipska for brother and he refused. He didn't want to come to America--wasn't smart enough to come to America.MARTEN: Then, where did you land when you reached the United States?
00:08:00MR. BERLAND: We landed, I think, in New Jersey or Philadelphia.
MARTEN: I see--
MR. BERLAND: I-I couldn't tell you exactly. I remember just the name of the
ship; I remember the date; [inaudible] it was the ninth of May. The boat was a [inaudible] and the company was the Western-Western Company or something like that. [Inaudible] Then we landed and they [pause] they had the community [inaudible] of those [inaudible] come to America, the greenhorns. They took us in off the boat and take care of us just like babies, took care...And we stayed 00:09:00there a little while [inaudible].MARTEN: And they sent you to Milwaukee?
MR. BERLAND: Yeah.
MARTEN: I see, and oh..
MR. BERLAND: I didn't pay anything. [Mumbling]
MARTEN: Um-hm.
MR. BERLAND: Those societies take care of us, sent our people out to work.
MARTEN: And then did they have employment for you here?
MRS. BERLAND: No. Employment? No.
MR. BERLAND: You mean work?
MARTEN: Did they have work for you already lined up?
MR. BERLAND: When I came down here, I went to the factory and worked there by
gathering [inaudible]. Factory they have some kind of [inaudible]. I worked there maybe for a year or so and then I start on my own. I start to peddle on my 00:10:00own [pause] and so I peddled and little by little, you know how it is. Peddling and saving and sure enough family brought up little by little, and more of the family come up the more we need the more that came in.MARTEN: Um-hm.
MR. BERLAND: And so--
[Pause]
MARTEN: Did you peddle just in Milwaukee? Did you go throughout the state?
MR. BERLAND: Fruit.
MRS. BERLAND: Yeah.
MARTEN: Fruit.
MRS. BERLAND: First in Milwaukee, then throughout the state.
MR. BERLAND: Fruit, and then I [ pause] started my own store. Then I bought a
little place here still on Vliet St. and so I bring up my family here.[Pause]
MRS. BERLAND: And little by little we have much less now than we did then. They
00:11:00spend whatever they were making, they spend more than I used to save, penny by penny. Every time I used to say that's what we could educate our children with and send them to school.MR. BERLAND: Well you know, when I came here, I came with a different feeling.
You know I should...I was already about thirty-three years old when I left Russia and being in Russia you know, I didn't have the right to live in the place where I was bom. Can you imagine that? My oldest brother--MARTEN: [Inaudible].
MR. BERLAND: My older brother, he is already dead--went in Russia, of course he
went to military for three years and eight months. He was born in the same village I was born. All the family of mine was born there. When he come back 00:12:00from military, they didn't allow him to live in that village, because he's a Jew.MARTEN: Hard to imagine. Then [pause] you say you were usually pretty busy to
participate in the Zionist organizations. I'm not sure I have this picture clear.MR. BERLAND: Well, talking about this, you know, I am a Zionist member. I came
since [inaudible] I never used it. Since...here is written I think 1914-13 or something like that.MARTEN: Um-hm. Now had there been a Zionist organization in Russia when you were there?
MR. BERLAND: No. No.
MARTEN: You just became interested...
MR. BERLAND: Just when we came to the United States.
MARTEN: In Milwaukee?
00:13:00MR. BERLAND: In Milwaukee, yeah. See this was established in 1898 [pause] with
the purpose to settle Jews, to colonize them in Palestine. That was the purpose.MARTEN: Um-hm.
[Pause]
MR. BERLAND: I have just under [inaudible]. I mean they are organized there, but
[inaudible] came in they send them all over the world to the Jews. They should buy that with that money and they settle down at the...who wants to go out to settle it so. But that was the purpose. But when we, me and my wife, maybe 1945-44, when I gave up my business--on account of arthritis I couldn't work no more. Then we went out to live in Hot Springs. Of course, this was in 1945, when 00:14:00all my children was married. We were just couple. So we gave...so we gave up here Milwaukee on account of arthritis and we went to Hot Springs and we lived in Hot Springs, since that time we lived there. And by being there we were active in that organization. In fact, that we were active there, there it is [showing in scrapbook].[Long pause]
MARTEN: 1954.
MR. BERLAND: And it's...happened in 1958-59 when my wife got sick, I couldn't
00:15:00stay there any more, so I went to someplace where I'd had myself doctor. She was there in hospital for a little while and then we decided to take a home, so we came back home, here. And we settled here in the old home. And then they find out there in Hot Springs that we are settled here so they...[Pause]
MARTEN: Now, both of these certificates are from--
MR. BERLAND: Zionist organizations.
MARTEN: Zionist organizations in Hot Springs--
MR. BERLAND: Hot Springs.
MARTEN: Virginia, Georgia...
MR. BERLAND: Here's one from the president the man on whose name the Zionist
00:16:00district is. The name I think, no, [inaudible]. Here, here it is-the name. You can see the man sent me a letter when they find out we were here. Let me find out the address.MARTEN: From Hot Springs, Arkansas. That's good. Then, was there quite a
reaction within this Zionist organization in the 1930's when Hitler came to power and--MR. BERLAND: In 1930, no.
MARTEN: Well, then after Hitler began his purges. And his--
MR. BERLAND: No, you see, here it... the Zionist organization is what started
work way back years. They used to come to collect, you know how it is, dues and 00:17:00so on. There was a time when they neglected a little bit not to come and we didn't pay enough. We didn't pay them, you know and so it went slowly, very slowly. But later on, we started to wake up a little more, so we started to be more active.[Pause]
MARTEN: And was there a particular date when the activity picked out?
MR. BERLAND: No, not here. I used to come to the Zionist meetings, but it's way
back, way back. I can say maybe in 1935 or something, something a little by that.MARTEN: Do you recall who some of the leaders of the organization were at that time?
MR. BERLAND: At that time it was, what's his name--it's a long time back. I
can't remember too many. 00:18:00[Pause]
MARTEN: The Golda Meir Zionist group--is this one in Milwaukee?
MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MR. BERLAND: Milwaukee? 56 years.
MARTEN: This is the one that you were in?
MR. BERLAND I lived in Milwaukee already 56 years. While we were in Hot Springs,
I visited every s-summer. Every summer, I used to come here to Milwaukee with my wife, stay a couple of months and go back.[Pause]
[Talking in background]
MARTEN: Oh, were you--
MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MR. BERLAND: I remember--
MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MARTEN: Oh?
MR. BERLAND: I remember the name, the name was--in that time, he was a big
leader here in Milwaukee. It was Seffler, by the name Seffler. I don't know his 00:19:00first name. He was a big leader here in the Zionist organization. I think was the president for a long time, yeah.MARTEN: Was he an effective leader of the organization?
MR. BERLAND: Yeah, yeah in that time.
MARTEN: Was he good at selling these--
MR. BERLAND: From him, from him, I had these--I bought it when he was president.
I bought a shed, you know. And he [inaudible] to buy. I was one of them. [pause] They had after some other organizations, but I don't know if your interested here. [long pause] Here is [looking in scrapbook] [inaudible]. 00:20:00MARTEN: Um-hm.
MR. BERLAND: Here's my son...
MARTEN: Very nice--
MR. BERLAND: And this is a friend, you know.
MARTEN: Um-hm.
MR. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
[Page turning]
MRS. BERLAND: [inaudible].
MR. BERLAND: Well, this is different things already. [page turning] Since we
were very active there in the Jewish community in Hot Springs, very much, plus I wrote articles in the Jewish papers. They established there a little synagogue, you know. We took quite a big effort for that, me and my wife and it was true that Zionists--he was a big leader in-in Hot Springs and they built up the 00:21:00community. So, I just wrote a couple of articles, Jewish papers. I don't know if that will be necessary.MARTEN: No, what particular Jewish paper is this that you wrote the articles for?
MR. BERLAND: The Jewish papers--it is right here, I read. This is the Jewish
paper [inaudible] this is the name.[Page turning]
MARTEN: The Day Jewish Journal. And this is the paper that you wrote the
articles for, too?MR. BERLAND: Yes.
[Page turning]
00:22:00MARTEN: Would you make any comparisons between the religious life in Milwaukee
and in Hot Springs, Arkansas or is this possible?MR. BERLAND: Which way do you mean? The Jewish...
MARTEN: The Jewish religious life.
MR. BERLAND: No. As Orthodox, I belong to the Orthodox. [Inaudible] Orthodox.
There are...there are the Reformed here in Milwaukee. My boy belongs to the Reformed here in Milwaukee. My daughter I think belongs to the Reformed, but I am an Orthodox. [Inaudible].MARTEN: Oh, did the shift--or did it go from Orthodox to Reformed while you
living in Milwaukee?MR. BERLAND: Why not? Sure. We were in Hot Springs very much together. [pause]
00:23:00Well, talking about a little history, I think [inaudible] not here. My younger daughter, she is a teacher here in Milwaukee. she she made history when she was going to [inaudible] school. She had two diplomas in one-one semester.MARTEN: Both from the school?
MR. BERLAND: Yeah, in school she had--in one semester she took two diplomas. I
don't know how in happened, but she made it. And after that, of course she had a master's degree in music in Chicago. Northwestern--I think Chicago--Northwestern University. She had her master's degree in music. No, she's here in Milwaukee, [inaudible] plays here in symphony orchestra. We have here a symphony orchestra. 00:24:00MARTEN: Were you--did you yourself continue playing the violin when you got here?
MR. BERLAND: No, no. I left Russia. I just took my violin and I think my
daughter, [inaudible], of course she has a better one than I had. And no, I don't play, but I want my children to know music so, I gave [inaudible] as possible.MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible] My daughter's on television every week, every Thursday.
MR. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MRS. BERLAND: She's in the symphony...
MARTEN: And that's carried on one of the Milwaukee channels?
MRS. BERLAND: Um-hm. [long pause] She's very educated. She's very popular in
00:25:00Milwaukee. We have very educated children, one after another, a doctor, a lawyer and two supervisors of music. The doctor in Cleveland is a very very educated...MR. BERLAND: This is--this is true. The United States, you know. My children
[inaudible] I was able to do whatever is possible for the children, you know. Everything I gave them to be educated and so I have the older daughter in Cleveland and she has a son [pause] and he goes to school of course. He was very 00:26:00good in school, all around. Now, he's in Boston pay to the United States two years, military, so my daughter writes me a letter [pause] that, Melvin, her son, is in Boston in the military, but they gave him permission to be out of the military and arranged an apartment for himself and do this research work, whatever research work, whatever he did in the school. And so he is in military and pays and is out of school, private, private and on account of his work, I 00:27:00don't know what he's working. Must be a bright boy. [laughter]MRS. BERLAND: [inaudible] grades.
MARTEN: Oh?
MR. BERLAND: Oh, yes.
MRS. BERLAND: Very, very bright. Such a smart boy.
MR. BERLAND: Well they gave him that, they gave him that..must be something,
something he is working for [inaudible].MARTEN: Um-hm.
MR. BERLAND: But I am glad I have it.
MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible] the children [inaudible].
MR. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MARTEN: Were your--
MR. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MARTEN: Were your children educated in the public schools in Milwaukee or?
MR. BERLAND: In Milwaukee.
MRS. BERLAND: Yeah, High school--
MR. BERLAND: High schools in Milwaukee. When it comes to universities, my-my boy--
00:28:00[Door opening]
UNKNOWN: [Inaudible] Oh, you have company, excuse me. [Door closing]
MR. BERLAND: A lawyer [inaudible] here in Marquette University in Mil-Milwaukee
and my daughter and while she was in Cleveland she was then going to school, took a course in University, a two-years course. They like to be educated. Well, the younger boy is in same place. He is a doctor. He makes out nice for himself, took radiology...now he has quite a big business. He has two offices of his own... 00:29:00MRS. BERLAND: Hospitals [inaudible].
MR. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MR. BERLAND: Oh, my-my son's wife, she is an artist. She teaches school here in,
high school.MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MR: BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible] they are too high for us.
MARTEN: Oh, well I don't think you have that problem. Now have...
MRS. BERLAND: But they are proud of us [inaudible]...
MARTEN: Well [inaudible]. [pause] Has Milwaukee grown quite a bit from 1906?
MRS. BERLAND: Now at this time, I can't walk. I have to go with a wheelchair. My
00:30:00daughter has to give me a ride...was driving around. I couldn't recognize Milwaukee at all. So different--everything is grown up.MR. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MRS. BERLAND: Big change. Are you from Milwaukee?
MARTEN: No.
MR. BERLAND: You come from Madison?
MARTEN: I'm from Madison, yes, and not too familiar with the growth of
Milwaukee, but, oh, what streets were they...do you remember were the boundaries when you came here in 1906?MR. BERLAND: What streets were what?
MARTEN: How far out did Milwaukee go out in terms of streets?
MR. BERLAND: Oh...If you say the fifties...in '53 in that time it wasn't the
fifties, in numbers but it was in the houses, in that time. Milwaukee grow up, progressed, 15 years and I am out. I am fifteen years out of Milwaukee. When I 00:31:00visit, when I come downtown I can't recognize it. Milwaukee grows up pretty quick too.MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
MR. BERLAND: Now don't say that. This is our home. This is our home. This is our
home. We are very satisfied here. It's very nice.They take good care. What else you need? Old people like us? If I should consider my age, I'm 88, 89 going. What could I wish? I wish I could be a little stronger.MRS. BERLAND: If I was stronger I could be more active here, like I was active
00:32:00in the other organizations. They [inaudible]. I feel like I'm all gone. but ...MR. BERLAND: Now don't complain. Now we are here, now we are here.
MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible]. I can't walk.
MR. BERLAND: Yes, that's the way it goes.
MARTEN: Do they have quite a few activities here that?
MR. BERLAND: Yeah, they have. Just today they had, everyone they had a birthday.
MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible] party.
MR. BERLAND: They have a party every month for birthdays. I was born in
December. They had a party in December. They had about 15 or 20 there.MRS. BERLAND: They stick together the birthdays and the-the people...
MR. BERLAND: Every month they have a party because there are old people...
MRS. BERLAND: [Inaudible].
[Pause]
00:33:00MARTEN: Well, I thank you very much for letting me take down some of your
reminiscences.MR. BERLAND: Okay.
MARTEN: I’m sure...
