Interview with Harold and Bobby Schwam, November 3, 2008, Sheboygan, Wisconsin

Partial Transcript: Harold was born on February 2, 1921 in Sheboygan, Wisconsin in his family home. He has five other siblings all of whom were also born at home.

Partial Transcript: His father was Harry Schwam and his mother was Anna Hoffman Schwam. His father was born in Russia, near Kiev and he came to Sheboygan because he had an uncle in Sheboygan Falls. His father came to Sheboygan in 1905. Harry and his sister were orphaned at a young age and raised by various cousins.

Partial Transcript: Harold's father came when he was sixteen years old. His father got a job in a woodworking factory when he came to Sheboygan. He eventually quit his factory job and started peddling dry goods. After peddling for a few years, he started a dry goods and grocery store in Sheboygan.

Partial Transcript: His father opened the store a few years before 1918.

Partial Transcript: Harold is not sure of how his parents met.

Partial Transcript: Harold's mother was from Wausau. Her father was a peddler and involved in the fur business.

Partial Transcript: Harold's mother died when he was nine and so he spent a lot of time in Wausau with his grandparents to ease the burden on his father.

Partial Transcript: His uncle's furniture store was on the main street in Berlin, Wisconsin.

Partial Transcript: There was also another Jewish family in Berlin who owned a furniture store.

Partial Transcript: Harold would work in Wausau during the summer when he stayed with his grandparents.

Partial Transcript: The names of Harold's maternal grandparents were Morris and Rose Hoffman. Morris was from Poland and he originally went to Michigan when he first came to America. Harold is not sure of how his grandfather came to Wausau.

Partial Transcript: Harold never attended the synagogue in Wausau. He knew a few Jews his own age in Wausau. He would spend four to six weeks in Wausau every summer.

Partial Transcript: His siblings from oldest to youngest are Jeanette, Bernerd, William, Joseph, Mariam, Florence. Harold is the second oldest and Florence died at four years of age.

Partial Transcript: Bobby came to Sheboygan in 1947 and the Schwams no longer owned the original store, but just had a small grocery store. Harold's father was a devote Jew and always closed the store on shabbos.

Partial Transcript: Many other Jewish business people kept their businesses open on shabbos.

Partial Transcript: Harold was never involved in running the family store.

Partial Transcript: Harold's father was always religious. The family always had a shabbos dinner growing up and his father did all the cooking after his mother died.

Partial Transcript: Bobbi discusses the effect of the death of Harold's mother on the family.

Partial Transcript: Harold's father eventually remarried a woman from Chicago, but the couple divorced after about a year of marriage. He married another woman from Canada, but she died in 1945. He married again in 1947, just before Harold and Bobbi's marriage.

Partial Transcript: The second store owned by Harold's father was in the Jewish neighborhood of Sheboygan across the street from the shul.

Partial Transcript: Harold attended the white shul of Sheboygan, which was across the street from his father's store.

Partial Transcript: Harold worked for the kosher butcher in Sheboygan when he was in high school. He would deliver kosher meat to people early in the morning.

Partial Transcript: Sheboygan had a neighborhood that was predominantly Jewish. One would often hear Yiddish spoken on the street in this neighborhood. There were three temples in Sheboygan and two cemeteries. They discuss the Jewish cemeteries in Sheboygan.

Partial Transcript: The white shul that Harold attended was originally a church. The church was moved to the Jewish neighborhood when the Jewish community purchased it to make it into a synagogue.

Partial Transcript: The Sheboygan Jewish community built another shul in 1950 for a conservative congregation. The old, white shul had wooden pews.

Partial Transcript: The white shul had a minyan every day. Harold discusses the rabbis that were with the white shul.

Partial Transcript: Harold attended cheder at the white shul until he was thirteen years old.

Partial Transcript: One shul in Sheboygan was dominated by a large Jewish family. Harold says that the people who attended the brick shul simply followed a different branch of Judaism. He tells a story about being Jewish in the army.

Partial Transcript: Harold is not familiar with the rabbis of the other Sheboygan shuls.

Partial Transcript: There was a Hebrew library in the Jewish neighborhood. The library often hosted Jewish organization meetings.

Partial Transcript: Harold belonged to B'nai B'rith and another Jewish organization while he was in high school. He talks about how there were not many Jewish kids that he was friends with in his high school.

Partial Transcript: Sheboygan's B'nai B'rith chapter was one of the oldest chapters of the organization in the country. Bobby discusses how the women in Sheboygan agitated for a B'nai B'rith women's chapter and finally got one in the 1970s. She was an officer in the organization.

Partial Transcript: The Beth El congregation had a sisterhood. Bobbi was heavily involved in the Beth El congregation and taught Sunday school.

Partial Transcript: The Beth El congregation was formed in the 1950s. The other synagogues in Sheboygan lasted into the 1960s. Bobbi says they started going to Beth El synagogue as her kids got older and needed a Jewish education.

Partial Transcript: Bobbi discusses a rabbi who was highly educated, but did not relate well with others, especially children.

Partial Transcript: Harold talks about how kids would call him antisemitic names while he was on his way to Hebrew school. Bobby discusses her son's experiences with antisemitism. The interviewees discuss how Sheboygan used to have an air of antisemitism.

Partial Transcript: The Schwams lived in Sheboygan until 1986. Bobbi talks about how there were places in Sheboygan where Jews were not welcome. By the time the Schwams left, Jews were welcome in the Elks Club and the country club. Harold says that many young Jews left Sheboygan because there were not many economic opportunities.

Partial Transcript: Bobbi talks about how Sheboygan used to be called "little Jerusalem." She also talks about an incident in 1947 where a store owner had a flag with a swastika in his window. Andy Muchin points out the contrast between Sheboygan's large Jewish population and the antisemitic atmosphere of the city. Harold talks about how Sheboygan had a large German population and many people spoke German.