Interview with Lorraine Allord, January 20, 1994, Middleton, Wisconsin

BORKOWSKI: Interview with Lorraine Connie Allord on January 20, 1994, at her home in Middleton, Wisconsin, as part of the Wisconsin Women During World War II Oral History Project. Connie, where were you and what were you doing when the attack on Pearl Harbor was announced?

ALLORD: We had been married just one month and were out at my aunt and uncle's out of Middleton. We had been pheasant hunting when in and my aunt always had a big Sunday dinner. So, there was my aunt and uncle, my five cousins, and us, and we were just sitting down to dinner when one cousin was near a radio that was on low and all of a sudden he said, "Shh, be quiet." He turned up the radio and 00:01:00that was it, we heard it. While being the age we were we knew what was ahead. So, from that moment on our lives were turned upside down.

BORKOWSKI: What were some of the first changes you noticed?

ALLORD: Well, it was gradual. First, we couldn't plan ahead. My husband then went to work up at Badger Ordinance building that facility and was commuting and we finally moved up there in an old, old farm house just to avoid that long commute.

BORKOWSKI: Now were you working at that time?

ALLORD: Yes, I was working for the Agricultural Adjustment Administration in Madison.

BORKOWSKI: What did your job there entail?

ALLORD: Just typing mostly--varied clerical. But, then I quit that and then we moved up there and when that job was almost finished, he used to come home talking about the Seabees [Construction Battalions], which was newly created. And I could see what was coming. So, without saying anything I started inquiring 00:03:00about the marines.

BORKOWSKI: How did you find out about the marines?

ALLORD: You know, I thought about that and thought about it. I don't know. It's just something like--that was it, and somehow I knew that he'd go overseas with the marines making beach head landings and my purpose was to replace a marine that would go over. And, yes, it was a little ego, it was the hardest branch to get into.

BORKOWSKI: Had you been concerned about your husband being drafted? He enlisted, correct?

ALLORD: Oh, he was registered for the draft but he couldn't wait. So, when he 00:04:00came home, said he was enlisting, I said, "Fine, but I am too."

BORKOWSKI: What was his reaction?

ALLORD: I didn't know what to expect. He said, "Fine, let's go do it."

BORKOWSKI: Were you surprised?

ALLORD: Yeah, really. So, we went to the Milwaukee and enlisted.

BORKOWSKI: What was that process like?

ALLORD: It was quite long for me. They were very, very strict and we had to go through lots of interviews. We had to get five character references--very strict physical exams. So, he was called awhile, quite a while, before I was. So, we moved everything back to Tomahawk where we're from and I stayed there with my 00:05:00parents till I was called.

BORKOWSKI: How did your parents react to the idea of you going into the marines?

ALLORD: You know my mother was a quiet little lady, but she didn't say much. I think she really secretly thought that's what she'd do too if she could. And Dad was a little bit standoffish. He didn't say, "You shouldn't do that, or I don't want you to," anything like that. But he was more reserved. Cause some of their reputations of servicewomen weren't that great for a very good reason. It 00:06:00stemmed back from when the WACS [Women's Army Corps] were WAAC [Women's Auxiliary Army Corps] and weren't part of the army. They started dropping their standards and were taking in less desirables--where this all came from. But, when they then eliminated the auxiliary and made them just plain army, it started going up again. But, of course, that's something we had to work on.

BORKOWSKI: Did that also affect your decision to go into the Marines instead of the Army?

ALLORD: I suppose that did somewhat, yes. But, my dad had been in the army, World War I, Larry [husband] was going into the navy, and I just chose the 00:07:00Marine Corps. But, yes, it--to me, it had meant a higher standard. I wouldn't tell my WAC friends that because I've got some very, very good friends that were WACS. But, at that time that was my opinion.

BORKOWSKI: Did you ever consider going into the WAVES [Women Accepted for Voluntary Emergency Service] instead, to be closer to your husband?

ALLORD: No. Because actually he was tied closer to the Marines than Navy. His combat training was Marine. Right. He wore bell bottoms, but his combat training was strictly Marine. And I couldn't, anyway, go into the same service as he was. 00:08:00That was one of the rules.

BORKOWSKI: Oh really.

ALLORD: Yes. Right.BORKOWSKI: So you were called up in late 1943?

ALLORD: Yes, November, late November.

BORKOWSKI: And you trained in North Carolina?

ALLORD: Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, right. Six weeks boot.

BORKOWSKI: What was that like?

ALLORD: It was tough. It was really long and some of them didn't make it. But I had come from northern Wisconsin. I had just finished a week of hard deer hunting and I was in good condition, and I guess breezed through it although, 00:09:00you know, if you don't complain it's not normal. But, yes, some of them just had not had that kind of a background that they could take the military.

BORKOWSKI: The physical part of it you mean?

ALLORD: Both, both. Yes, so they were discharged for either medical reasons or military misfits, as they were called. Yes, it was rugged. In that article you'll read something about it.

BORKOWSKI: Tell me what some of the things were that made it especially tough.

ALLORD: Oh, of course. In North Carolina, in December, January, it was terribly cold. Damp, damp, bone chilling cold and we were out early, early in the morning 00:10:00in shorts running. And then back into uniforms and had a lot of drill. We had classes, lots of classes indoctrinating us into the Marine Corps and we had to learn naval history and we had to learn how the military was set up--tactics. We actually had gas drill with real gas--gas masks. We had to go to the firing range. It wasn't required that we fire, but we were permitted if we wanted.

BORKOWSKI: Did you learn to?

ALLORD: Oh yes.

BORKOWSKI: Oh, you knew how to shoot.

ALLORD: I grew up with guns. So, yes, I did. And we were taken on field trips to watch them practice beach heads and amphibious landings. We watched the canine corps training and saw lots of combat films and we had aircraft recognition. Of course, lots of personal hygiene, map reading. Well, everything that the military teaches.

BORKOWSKI: What were some of the other woman like that were in your particular group?

ALLORD: In boot camp, of course, was quite a cross section but they were all, 00:12:00I'd say, of a very high caliber cross section. And then, of course, that was just for six weeks. Then we were all split up and sent to schools all over and that's where we made most of our lasting contacts. Which I still have.BORKOWSKI: So, where did you do your training after boot camp?

ALLORD: Well, at first I was sent to Cherry Point, North Carolina, for two weeks and they had lots of aptitude tests and interviews. Of course every time you turned around you were getting shots or something or other and they opened one 00:13:00more school for control tower and I made the list. So, we went by troop train to Atlanta, Georgia, to a small naval air station and there spent another six weeks in control tower school.

BORKOWSKI: What was that like?

ALLORD: That was, well, a little different. Half of our class were WAVES and half Marines and our classes were held in back of an aircraft hangar where they were actually repairing, testing aircraft engines. So, it was extremely noisy. So, we had to use earphones and microphones for our classes. And strangely 00:14:00enough our class went from 2:00 in the afternoon till 10:00 at night, which is a strange hour.

BORKOWSKI: Why was that?

ALLORD: I don't know. Maybe that was the only time available for that facility. So, in the morning we were still up early and did our GI duties. We had more drilling, physical training, course study. We had to really cram because it was just six weeks and it was a very, very intense course. Part of it was aerology and of course lots of air craft recognition. We had to learn all the rules of 00:15:00the airwaves and how to control ground traffic besides local plus national traffic. And at the end of that six weeks we were given our military and civilian license for control tower. And from there went right back to Cherry Point and many were dispersed to, well, all over the country. Some to our outlying fields. We had nine outlying fields besides our big field. And I stayed at the big field.

BORKOWSKI: Now, you went to boot camp in November of. . .

ALLORD: 1943.

BORKOWSKI: 1943. Were you able to go home for the holidays then?

ALLORD: Oh, no.

BORKOWSKI: What were the holidays like?

ALLORD: Oh, I was in boot camp over Christmas and that was something because I don't think anyone there had ever been away from home over Christmas. So, it was kind of a teary Christmas for most. But, I was, I guess, kind of a rare breed. I was married and had left home.

BORKOWSKI: Were you older than most of the women? You were what, twenty-three?

ALLORD: Twenty-three. You had to be twenty to go in. So I was, at most, three years older. But they were from like twenty to twenty-three, some older. But, I suppose it was kind of average.

BORKOWSKI: So, what did you do at Christmas then, when you were stuck in boot camp?

ALLORD: Stuck in boot camp. We--I'll never forget--we marched to midnight mass in platoon formation and entered church in orderly manner and marched back to the barracks. We did have a tree, southern pine tree. And I don't know, just make-shift ornaments. And it was a first Christmas that "White Christmas" had come out. To this day I don't know if I like that song or not. It was played over and over and over.

BORKOWSKI: Oh, that must have brought a few tears.

ALLORD: Yes right, right. But, of course, once Christmas, next day, it was back 00:18:00to business as usual. Yes.

BORKOWSKI: Now where was your husband during the holidays that year?

ALLORD: Let's see, I can't recall what base he was at, but he was out of his boot in advance training. I think he was in Gulfport, Mississippi. That's where they got their marine training because as I was in boot camp he was sent to the--or, in control tower school--he was sent to the west coast and was waiting to be shipped overseas because I had just gotten back to Cherry Point when he was shipped over. Right, he went up to Port Hueneme, California, and he shipped 00:19:00out with a cargo and they went without convoy across the Pacific; zig-zagging all over. Past Tahiti, down toward Australia and ending up in New Guinea in Hollandia. He was there for a year and in making the invasion of the Philippines that's when his LST [Landing Ship Tank] was torpedoed and Kamakazied and set afire and he was taken back to New Guinea and then back home on a survival leave.

BORKOWSKI: Wow.

ALLORD: Right. And I got an automatic leave when he came home. So, well then, he 00:20:00still had a couple weeks when I had to go back so he went back with me. Stayed at a hotel in New Bern and I had permission to live off the base till he left. And he then went back, was assigned to Panama and spent the rest of the war there.

BORKOWSKI: Well, it sounds like then that the officers in your division were rather supportive of married recruits.

ALLORD: Oh, I had absolutely no problem at all.

BORKOWSKI: It's interesting, stories I've heard of women who followed their husbands in the army, the Army in particular at least was often, discouraging 00:21:00the wives tagging along and would not allow the men that kind of leave to go and spend time.

ALLORD: Well, the fact that I wasn't with him and hadn't seen him for, what, sixteen months and he was kind of a casualty of war. So, I just got an automatic--they were very supportive.

BORKOWSKI: What was that like having him so far away and the two of you being separated?

ALLORD: Well, we wrote a lot of letters, right.

BORKOWSKI: Do you still have any of those letters?

ALLORD: I suppose there might be some. I'm not sure.

BORKOWSKI: We can look later.

ALLORD: Sure. I think I--one letter I know I have, he wrote on his way overseas. 00:22:00Was on onionskin paper and it took them I think 38 days to get over with all of their zig-zagging. So, he wrote a little something almost every day and when they got over he could mail it back.

BORKOWSKI: That must have been some letter to get.

ALLORD: Yes. Right.

BORKOWSKI: What were the living conditions like when you were in the Marines? Both at boot camp and then later on at Cherry Point.

ALLORD: Well, at boot camp we lived in a brick barracks that had been a paratrooper's barracks. And, of course, it was built for a man and we had gang showers, the 00:23:00whole bit. Then, at Cherry Point we had temporary barracks that were big, big wooden barracks, two story. Built in kind of an H-shape that each wing held, well, 200--100 up, 100 down. So, each barracks held probably 400 women. Right in the center part was the lounge, the laundry facility. Unlike the men, we did our own laundry. But, of course those barracks have long since been torn down again. But in Atlanta we were in regular barracks. I guess those were a men's barracks, 00:24:00too. But everything--of course you know the Navy and their polishing and waxing. The floors had about six inches of wax on. Brass to be polished.

BORKOWSKI: What was your job like? What was that like being a control tower operator?

ALLORD: It was a very, very intense job. There was absolutely no room for error. We were highly trained. We had to have perfect vision, pilot's vision. And we rotated from tower to clearance and eventually when I made staff sergeant I was 00:25:00in charge, NCO [Non-Commissioned Officer], of one of the shifts and then I passed both the squadron station board for my technical sergeants stripes. But, by that time war was about over and when Larry got out I got an automatic [discharge], so those stripes never made it through. But, they were pushing me through as fast as people could go to be the NCO in charge of the whole clearance center. And toward the end, when the men were coming back from overseas, we trained them then to take our places. But, as it turned out many of 00:26:00them were discharged before we were. And that made us a little nervous, having these combat veterans coming back and working for us.

BORKOWSKI: Why did that make you nervous?

ALLORD: Well, I don't know. We just thought some of them would be kind of macho and would resent taking orders from a woman. But it didn't happen. They were just great guys.

BORKOWSKI: What was your working relationship with the men on the post, at the base?

ALLORD: It was absolutely on par. They treated us as equals, we had absolutely no problems and they were extremely courteous. We heard absolutely no foul 00:27:00language. In fact, when we worked the night shifts we ate in a men's barracks before we went to work and quite often when we'd walk in we'd hear somebody jokingly holler, "Watch your language, women on board." And in a kidding way, but they treated us very well. So, that was kind of a positive thing.

BORKOWSKI: Now, you had said that especially once you got to Cherry Point that many of the friends that you made there that you stayed in touch with for a long time. What was that like being with these women from all over the country?

ALLORD: Well, it was a great, great learning experience because we did from New York to California to the south, Midwest. I still have friends in all corners of the country.

BORKOWSKI: Had you been out of Wisconsin much prior to this?

ALLORD: Not a lot. I had traveled probably more than, well, say a lot of farm kids had and had gone into Canada. Chicago quite often. But of course not across the country.

BORKOWSKI: So, did anything surprise you in North Carolina?

ALLORD: Yes. And especially as we got deeper into the South. Our first stop in Georgia I think it was, when we got out, was the segregated bus stations, train 00:29:00stations, rest rooms, drinking fountains. You name it, it was segregated.

BORKOWSKI: What was your reaction to that?

ALLORD: I was just aghast. I had never heard of such a thing. Of course there were really no blacks where I grew up but I didn't view them any different. They were people. And riding on buses especially in Georgia, I don't care how full the bus was and a black got on a bus, they had to go to the back of the bus. Which was ridiculous. So, that was a little hard adjusting to. But, other than 00:30:00that, and other than--vegetation of course was totally different. And we got a big kick out of--oh at Christmas time in boot camp, our barracks were built right on the edge of the boondocks, as we call them, and what little free time we had we got a kick out of going into the boonies and picking holly and shimmying up trees and getting mistletoe. And there wasn't much we could buy at the PX for Christmas to send home so we sent home boxes of holly and mistletoe. But I guess at that age you adjust well. Food was a little different.

BORKOWSKI: In what way?

ALLORD: Well, on the base of course it wasn't much different. We had all women cooks, we had good food, I thought. But going into liberty it was different. Of course, we had a lot of good seafood, where I learned to love it. But I still can't stand grits [laugh]. That I never did learn to like, I still don't.

BORKOWSKI: They're a little different.

ALLORD: They taste like soap to me.

BORKOWSKI: Those things you have to grow up with I guess. So, I had started to ask you about your friends and sort of got off the track. Where were many of your good friends from?

ALLORD: Well, let's see. Had a good friend from New York. She was well educated. She spoke five languages fluently, was a concert pianist. She was a neurologist. She worked on second deck control tower, in the operations building and when foreign officers would come to the base for study, she'd be detached to interpret for them. And through her we met some of them, too, and that was interesting. One group from Brazil especially we got to know.

BORKOWSKI: What was that like?

ALLORD: It was really exciting. They were such gentlemen. You'd walk in a room 00:33:00and they'd snap to attention. Here they were officers; majors, colonels. It was a very learning experience, right. She, at one point, wanted a couple of the girls to join them for dinner and wanted someone a little bit more mature and past the kiddie age and for some reason she picked me and a friend from Ohio that had graduated Phi Beta Kappa, and we did go to dinner and danced and had a really good time. But, when they picked us up at the barracks everyone was 00:34:00hanging out the windows, much to our embarrassment. But we got out and they were all holding the doors, had their hats under their arms and just, oh, you couldn't believe it.

BORKOWSKI: That must have been exciting.

ALLORD: It was but they spoke Portuguese which my friend could speak and of course we couldn't. But, they were wonderful doing the [?] and things like that and wanted to learn our Jitterbug. So, we were trying to teach them our Jitterbug but it was a strange combination.

BORKOWSKI: That must have been fun.

ALLORD: That was fun. And we traveled up and down the coast quite a bit. We had 00:35:00access to flights that were going, you know, wherever they were going. And if there were planes that we were allowed to fly in we could call a squadron, get on the passenger list and go, if we had the liberty.

BORKOWSKI: So did you do that often?

ALLORD: Yes, quite often.

BORKOWSKI: As in?

ALLORD: Well, we worked seven days a week and once a month had 71 hours off so we kind of watch the schedules and we'd get on one to New York or Washington or just get on for a flight. There were some months I think we had more flying time than some of the pilots had. And once I flew home on leave in August. Larry was 00:36:00overseas, but I took my leave and went home and I flew to Chicago in a B25 bomber, where I sat on the top turret seat with the gunner.

BORKOWSKI: That must have been something.

ALLORD: Yes. So, we had to wear a parachute and the whole bit. But, being a control tower operator they let, gave me some earphones so I could listen to the communications.

BORKOWSKI: That must have been fascinating.

ALLORD: Right. And we did fly in a lot of transports and too we could listen in. We'd fly to New York, which was a great liberty town. They treated us like royalty.

BORKOWSKI: What did you do when you got to New York? What kinds of things would you do?

ALLORD: Sightseeing and shopping, of course. Kind of touristy stuff. And once we went to see an ice review, where five of us had gone up and we got there, there were long, long lines waiting to get in and the maître d' came over and said, "Do you have reservations?" Well, we didn't. So we thought that was the end of that. But he said, "Follow me," and he took us to a table just right overlooking the ice and had dinner and we had planned on going out to Floyd Bennet Field after, on a Sunday for a flight back to Cherry Point because we knew one of our planes was going up to pick up the Brooklyn Dodgers baseball team to go to 00:38:00Cherry Point for an exhibition game. And we planned on hopping, hitching a hop back. But, going out to Floyd Bennett we found lines and lines blocks long of people waiting for the streetcar to Coney Island and we knew we couldn't wait out that time so we went up to the conductor, told him we had to get to Floyd Bennet and he took us right on board.

BORKOWSKI: Those uniforms got you somewhere.

ALLORD: Right. Nearly caused a riot, but we got on. And on the way we saw, I think there were five men marines, and of course, we saw the uniforms and 00:39:00naturally talked to them. They were also from Cherry Point. They were looking for a way to get back, so we told them what we were doing, they joined us. And as we were going into the Floyd Bennett, at the gate, there was a pilot standing, leaning against a post and said, "Where are you all headed for?" We said, Cherry Point, and he said, "Well, I've got an empty plane going to Norfolk. I'll swing around, drop you off Cherry Point." So we got on board, he took us, dropped us off at Cherry Point. We kind of wanted to fly with the Dodgers but that was alright, at least we got back.

BORKOWSKI: That would have been fun.

ALLORD: Right, right. And people--well, of course, all these girls I got to know 00:40:00so well that we lived with from all over the country, but interesting pilots that we got to know. Tyrone Power was stationed there and he came in almost every day to file flight plans.

BORKOWSKI: What was that like?

ALLORD: Well, he was extremely handsome. All of the girls, you know, just were bug eyed. And he made it a point to learn all of our names. I don't mean first names, but if it was Sergeant or whatever so and so, he called us by name. And one day I was working the counter, flight counter, and he came in, was filing a flight plan and one of the girls came down from neurology and glanced over and 00:41:00saw him, never took her eyes off from him as she headed for this bank of doors across the lobby. Ran smack into a set of doors that were right head on. Of course, I could see it and wanted to explode and I couldn't. But he was such a gentleman. Whether he knew it or not I don't know. I suppose he was used to it. But, I worked with Lana Turner's brother-in- law. He was on my shift. And she at the time was married to Steve Crane and it's when she had Cheryl. So, she sent a lot of baby pictures to Bill and of course he'd always show them to us. And then 00:42:00I was working in the tower the day that Pappy Boynton came back. He had been a POW of the Japanese and his squadron had been stationed at Cherry Point, without him of course, and when he flew in we were so excited. He was our big hero and then, of course, all the binoculars were on him as he taxied in with all of his Japanese flags on his fuselage.

BORKOWSKI: Did they have any big reception for him then?

ALLORD: I don't know. Of course, he was an officer and I don't know what they had for him.

BORKOWSKI: So, there was no socializing with the officers?

ALLORD: No, there was no fraternizing--supposedly. Although one of my friends, 00:43:00two of my friends, did marry officers. One a naval officer, he was a pilot that was stationed there with the navy squadron, and another one did marry a Marine pilot.

BORKOWSKI: Did you have a lot of rules given to the general Marine women about dating, were there any rules forbidding it? You were married so that sort of left you outside of that.

ALLORD: No. That kind of left me out of the loop because I wasn't dating and any time that we did go anywhere to dances or anything it was in groups. So, I was just one of the group. There were no specific dates. We just got together. They 00:44:00had big dances in the drill halls and we had big bands come there--Fred Waring and his Pennsylvanians were there a couple of times, you know, other big bands. For recreation, I did a lot of sailing. Got to know a lot of the fellows that were in charge of the boat house and we, you know, in groups sailed together and did things like that. But, no there weren't--I don't recall any specific rules. Just, you know, we had to never ever disgrace our uniform.

BORKOWSKI: Meaning?

ALLORD: Meaning do anything that would be a disgrace to the corps. Like 00:45:00excessive drinking or anything like that. And just behaving ourselves in general and acting as ladies. Ladies first, and always to remember that. So, that kind of covered it.

BORKOWSKI: Were there many instances of disciplinary action for not doing that?

ALLORD: Not really. The only big discipline I remember, we were in boot camp and one of the women corporals who was stationed there had been caught stealing and 00:46:00when she was sentenced they called out both of our regiments to be present at her sentencing. Which was pretty severe.

BORKOWSKI: Do you suppose that was as much to serve as a lesson for you?

ALLORD: It was, it was, right. And she was sentenced at so many months of hard duty and then a dishonorable discharge.

BORKOWSKI: Now you hear a lot of talk about gays and lesbians in the military.

ALLORD: Right.

BORKOWSKI: Was that an issue when you were in the service?

ALLORD: No, not as such. But, it's strange to say, we didn't know what they were, you know. What does a farm kid from up north know about it? And on the way 00:47:00to boot camp, on the troop train, of course, it was just sort of mass confusion, on the trains they said pick a bunk or whatever. I had wanted to be near a compartment so I hopped up on the bunk and two gals took a lower bunk. I thought nothing of it. I was on my bunk minding my business, reading a magazine, a book or something and the lieutenant opened the door, came in, I heard her say, "Well, isn't this lovey." I thought, "What's she talking about?" I didn't know what was going on. And we got into boot camp late, we had trouble with the train, and we were very late and into the night as we were lining up to be 00:48:00assigned to companies and platoons, I saw these two over in another line and they recognized me and said, "Come on over," and for some reason I thought them a little bit strange and kind of said, "No," I'd stay where I was. And the next week I heard they were booted out.

BORKOWSKI: For that reason?

ALLORD: I suppose, right. But, somehow they had slipped through and had gotten in and didn't have enough sense to behave themselves. So, no, they didn't put up with it at all and that is the last I ever heard of any. Whether there were 00:49:00some, I'll never know. And I'm sure there were. There are today and always will be. But, you know, as long as they were good Marines, behaved themselves, whatever, didn't matter. But, to openly be gay, no, they didn't tolerate it at all.

BORKOWSKI: What were some of the other things you did with your free time there at Cherry Point?

ALLORD: Well, in the summer we were twenty miles from a beach, Atlantic beach, so--and working we rotated shifts everyday, was a rotating shift until the weekend.

BORKOWSKI: How long was your shift, your daily shift?

ALLORD: Eight hours. And weekends and whatever we worked. On Friday we worked through the weekend. Of course, that gave us a lot of daylight hours off so we could go to the beach, we did a lot of sailing. I did so much sailing I ended up teaching sailing because a crew would be busy, there'd be students waiting for instruction and they'd ask if I minded taking students out. So, I did a lot of that. And since I didn't date why. . .

BORKOWSKI: Were there very many other married women in your group?

ALLORD: No. In fact, I was the only one I know of in my group. Some married 00:51:00later, you know, and actually stayed in, they couldn't be with their husbands. But they did marry later. But, I guess I was just a little different.

BORKOWSKI: So, you were in the service when Franklin Roosevelt died.

ALLORD: Right.

BORKOWSKI: What was that like? What was your reaction?

ALLORD: Well, I remember exactly where I was when I heard it. Of all places, I was in the combat pool. We had to qualify for certain swimming abilities because 00:52:00if we did get shipped out anywhere overseas we had to, as the men go off these high dives in full pack and things like that, which we never did get to, but I was in the combat pool when I heard it.

BORKOWSKI: What was your reaction?

ALLORD: "Oh my gosh, we've lost our leader," and kind of wondered then what would be happening. But, other than that kind of life went on. We had our duties to do and went on and did them. It didn't really disrupt anything.

BORKOWSKI: Did you follow the war closely?

ALLORD: We couldn't follow it as closely as we would have liked because, well, 00:53:00we were too close to it. I did on, let's see, D-Day in Europe, I didn't know of course what was going on over there at Europe. I was more closely well connected to the Pacific. But at that time the old crane had been sent to an outlying field and that day, it was June 6, was D-Day, called in a flight plan from the outlying field, which I took from the position I was working and he said, "Did you hear that it's D-Day in Europe?" And I said, "No." So, he told me as much as 00:54:00he could what he had picked up. I don't know if it was shortwave or how he had picked it up. And that's how I heard that.

BORKOWSKI: Did the military give you any specific briefings on a regular basis?

ALLORD: No, no they didn't. Not really.

BORKOWSKI: So, you had to find out through word of mouth or through the newspapers like everybody else?

ALLORD: Right, yes, like everybody else. Yes. We weren't especially briefed. And then on V-E Day I do remember that too, victory in Europe. It was a drizzly, drizzly day and then when it was announced, of course, everybody loves a parade 00:55:00and the first thing you do is think about parades. So, we could hear our lieutenant coming up the stairs yelling for volunteers for the parade. Well, Larry was still in the Pacific where war was still raging and to myself I thought, this isn't my day to parade. I'll parade when it's over in the Pacific. So, went down the back stairs across to the chow hall steps and sat on the steps by myself in this drizzle.

BORKOWSKI: How did you feel?

ALLORD: It's hard to explain how I felt. I guess I felt, gosh, I'm glad it's 00:56:00over there at least, but I wish it were over in the Pacific, too. Yes. So, that was my V-E Day. Other than that I was on every parade list I think there was. I did a lot of parading and I somehow never ever had mess duty. Which I still to this day can't figure out except that they were trying to keep their mess halls intact [laugh].

BORKOWSKI: Who assigned those kinds of duties, your immediate commanding officers?

ALLORD: Officers, right.

BORKOWSKI: Now were your immediate commanding officers men or women?

ALLORD: Women. Yes, women. And they in turn had men officers. But, no, I had 00:57:00lots of guard duty and lots of parades but never mess duty.

BORKOWSKI: So, how often were parades called?

ALLORD: There was no pattern to it. It's whenever, you know, a new commanding general took over or something like that or one leaving, there'd be a parade and like that.

BORKOWSKI: So you were still in the service when V-J Day was announced?

ALLORD: Right. But, strangely enough we were all home on leave. My brother-in-law was in the army, Larry in the navy Seabees, me in the marines. We had gotten called home on an emergency for Larry's father. They had moved to 00:58:00Chicago and were working for Douglas Aircraft and he was in serious condition in the hospital. Thought he had cancer. Which turned out when they operated, wasn't cancer. But we were all home. Larry had come from Panama, I had arranged flights. He got to Cherry Point, I had a flight arranged to New York for us. We got on a naval air transport because I knew how to do it.

BORKOWSKI: So, both of you, both you and Larry?

ALLORD: Yes, flew to Chicago. And then we knew that V-J Day was coming so we left Chicago, went to Tomahawk and visited my mother. She stayed and she ran the 00:59:00farm with my grandparents while my dad went to Milwaukee and worked in the defense plant. And visited our sister-in-law in Rhinelander. And my brother-in-law was home, too, and of course we went out celebrating that night. And we were the only service people in this place and all three uniforms: army, navy and marines.

BORKOWSKI: That must have made you celebrities.

ALLORD: Yes. In fact Larry laid five dollars down on the bar when we went in, we couldn't buy a drink for love nor money. He went, walked out with the same five dollars. And, of course, we were celebrating and my big concern at the end of that night, I turned to Larry and said, "Did I disgrace my marine uniform?" And 01:00:00he said, "No." There wasn't much I could have done.

BORKOWSKI: I can see you were well indoctrinated.

ALLORD: Right. So, then we came to Madison on the actual V-J Day and we had our car and we drove around the square and that was total bedlam. Church bells were ringing, every single whistle was going off from the Tenney Building, paper, everything. We had a movie camera. I drove the car, Larry sat on the roof taking pictures. And my cousin had married a fellow from Middleton and they had a 01:01:00cottage up at the lake so, of course, another big party and there were others that had been in the army, got a medical discharge. His brother had been a POW in Europe. His B-24 was shot down. His brother was home from the coast guards, so we had all kinds of uniforms there and we partied there. And then, of course, afterward we still--Larry still had to go back to Panama.

BORKOWSKI: And you had to go back?

ALLORD: To Cherry Point. My brother-in-law back to Texas.

BORKOWSKI: What was that like--after having this big excitement?

ALLORD: Right. It was kind of, well, kind of a letdown. And I kind of in a way 01:02:00wished I could have been with my friends at Cherry Point. They opened the gates wide but I don't think anyone left. Apparently they rolled out the beer. I mean by the truckloads. I don't think anyone left the base. They just stayed and celebrated. So, that's where we were on V-J Day.

BORKOWSKI: That sounds so exciting.

ALLORD: But, we knew it was coming. When we heard about the bombing of Hiroshima. . .

BORKOWSKI: What was your reaction to that?

ALLORD: My reaction was; "Ah hah, so that's what it was all about." Of course, then we got a connection with Oakridge, Tennessee, at the same time. Because 01:03:00this one time that we went to New York, five of us went, this one girl from Ohio had a civilian friend that was working in Oakridge, Tennessee, and he was in New York at the time so that's why she went and met him there and she didn't go with us out on the town that night. She met him. And afterward she said, "It's the strangest thing. He had a briefcase that he never let go of." She said, "We went for a ride through Central Park with that briefcase." That he never ever took his hands off from. And of course, when we heard about the bomb at the Oakridge...

BORKOWSKI: So, he had been involved in the development.

ALLORD: Yes, apparently so. And was in New York for some connection, yes. And that was my reaction, was ah hah, now I know what he was working on. So, actually we were quite, I mean as devastating as it was, we knew it would shorten the war and our feeling was that it actually saved a lot of lives by shortening it like it did. And bringing it to an abrupt halt. And, of course, we had been married, well from 1941 to end of 1945, we'd been married four years 01:05:00and were anxious to get home, get on with our lives.

BORKOWSKI: What did you think about the war in general? Did you think it was a just war?

ALLORD: Oh, absolutely. On our part there was no choice. We absolutely had no choice but to support it and do what we could to get it over with and see that the enemy was subdued. There was no thought if we won. It was when we won. And, of course, it was a total, total war effort. Which someone your age can't even imagine I don't think.

BORKOWSKI: It's very different. I come from the Vietnam era and that's very different.

ALLORD: Right, right. And of course we wanted to make the world safe for our children. And as it turned out our first born spent 20 years in the Marine 01:06:00Corps. Two tours in Vietnam, which was a bit ironic. Came back in one piece but went through hell over there. And I have a copy of his Silver Star to prove it. So, there's no such thing as making the world safe.

BORKOWSKI: I'm afraid you're probably right.

ALLORD: Yes. You try but, it doesn't work.

BORKOWSKI: I'd like to backtrack a little.

ALLORD: Sure.

BORKOWSKI: With the beginning of the war, here you are, a newlywed, Pearl Harbor's announced, how did that affect you financially?

ALLORD: Well, of course, we didn't have many worldly possessions being just newlyweds. And, of course, at that time weren't about to collect more. We knew that we just wouldn't be around to set up housekeeping so we just kept it a minimum and what we did have we divided between our parents to keep. So, we just kind of financially--we weren't too bad off. Larry was working at Badger Ordinance and he was making good money, as money went at that time. He was a welder. And there we were okay.

BORKOWSKI: What was your pay like in the marines as well?

ALLORD: It was kind of laughable. We started out as buck privates. I think it was $50.00 a month. Of course, that was just spending money. And I think a PFC got $54.00. Then as a corporal I don't remember what I got. I went right from private to corporal. Then of course as sergeant, you know, staff sergeant, I think I ended up with $94.00 a month and I also got an allotment from Larry's being in service as a dependent. Which was a bit unusual. So, that we just stashed away. So, that didn't affect us too much.

BORKOWSKI: So, as the war ended then, you as a couple probably did pretty well.

ALLORD: Yes. We came back, we got a small severance pay from the military.

BORKOWSKI: Who was discharged first, he was, right?

ALLORD: He was, right. And then from Great Lakes, then he came back and home, then he drove to North Carolina and I got my discharge and we drove home.

BORKOWSKI: So, it was very close though in time?

ALLORD: Yes. I think it was ten days or something like that, right. Because mine was automatic. They didn't even send me to a separation center, which from Cherry Point would have been Camp Lejeune. But they didn't bother. They discharged me right from Cherry Point, which meant that I went through with all the men being discharged.

BORKOWSKI: What was that like?

ALLORD: Well, we had to line up in these long, long lines for shots to get out, 01:10:00of all things. I think they dreamed up all this stuff. I don't know if half of them were real, but to see these men standing there waiting for shots and passing out. You kind of stand there and grit your teeth and make up your mind you're not going to do likewise, in front of all those men. And, you know, other than that you went in and said, "Ahhh, and yes, your pulse is fine and you're out."

BORKOWSKI: So, what was that like getting out of the service?

ALLORD: It was like you were let out of a cage, sort of. Your life was so structured by the military that when you got out you didn't quite know how to act, you know. You were kind of waiting for orders, then realized there weren't 01:11:00any, you were on your own. So, then we had to get together and make our own decisions. We came back to Madison and just started our lives all over.

BORKOWSKI: Did you take a job after you returned from the service?

ALLORD: No, I didn't. As a matter of fact I went to school for a while under the GI Bill.

BORKOWSKI: Here at the University?

ALLORD: No. I had my transcript ready to go there but I only had two years coming because of my time in service. By that time I would have gotten through all preliminaries before I got into a major that I wanted to. So, instead I cut that and went right to Madison Area Technical College and took commercial art, 01:12:00which was what I wanted. And got right into that. Well, then we moved from Madison out to Middleton on Airport Road and just one car and at that time that was some distance. So, we were right near Maury Field and I always wanted to fly so we applied and I went through two grueling days of aptitude tests and then had to prove that I was qualified for aviation, switching from art, which was--and at the end, but they said I was qualified first of all for aviation, 01:13:00second for an art teacher. I thought that was strange. That was the last thing on my mind. A few years later I ended up teaching at MATC in the art department. So, I thought that was interesting. They knew something I didn't. And of course, I had to--they tried to keep my clerical and office work kind of in the closet so to speak and that was down the list. So, we both took flying, got our pilots license under the GI Bill and I was the first woman in Wisconsin to get mine under the GI Bill. But, what I didn't know, or the doctor didn't know, and 01:14:00certainly wouldn't test a would-be pilot for was pregnancy. And I started flying not knowing I was pregnant. So, I got my license before Gary was born.

BORKOWSKI: Did you keep it up then?

ALLORD: No, I was too busy flying low after him. And then we had another son three and a half years later and eight years later a daughter. And so, no, I couldn't really keep it up and it was too expensive.

BORKOWSKI: Did your husband continue with his flying?

ALLORD: No, he didn't either then since I didn't.

BORKOWSKI: What kind of work did he go into?

ALLORD: He went back into welding. But, that wasn't working out too well so he 01:15:00went into sales and eventually, by 1949, I think it was got into insurance sales and stayed in insurance till he retired.

BORKOWSKI: How do you think that the war changed your life?

ALLORD: Oh, I think you looked at things differently and I think it made me especially able to cope with calamities a little bit better. Anything you can walk away from wasn't that big a disaster. I looked at it as a plane crash, you 01:16:00could walk away from it, it wasn't that bad.

BORKOWSKI: Did you, in fact, while you were at Cherry Point have to deal with any?

ALLORD: Oh yeah. There were crashes. Oh yes, a lot of mechanical problems, pilot error, what not. But, not one of them ever attributed to tower error. Yes.

BORKOWSKI: What was that like to have that happen?

ALLORD: Well, it was something you just took in stride at a base that size.

BORKOWSKI: We were talking about dealing with accidents at the field.

ALLORD: Right. Of course, it's something you just had to take in stride and although one night was especially bad. I was working the night shift and we had 01:17:00a B24 coming in from California and Colonel Pollack was the pilot, there were thirteen aboard. We didn't really deal with B24s much. I never did know why that plane was coming to Cherry Point or why he was flying. But coming in, almost on final approach, it exploded. Just absolutely exploded and lost all thirteen and that same night we had two fighter pilots going into an outlying field and were struck by lightning and they went down. So, there were fifteen that night that 01:18:00we lost. Our crash crew was going across the field, they couldn't run with lights on because of the confusion of lights. Two of the jeeps collided head on. They had crash crew out on the tarmac. And only one of the girls really came unglued. A very sensitive girl. But, when we got off at midnight we knew we had been through it. Yes. And then another time I was working in clearance and the head controller called me and said get a flight plan on such and such a plane. It was a bomber, B-25--he said, "It's out here and we don't have a flight plan." 01:19:00So, I called squadron and I said "That plane it's not out, it's on the flight line, it's not scheduled to go." So, I called back up and said "That plane doesn't have a flight plan, they said it's on the line," and I think he called me three times, was getting madder every time and finally was on the verge of swearing and said, "It's out here warming out, ready to go." And by that time it started taking off and it had only warmed up a short, short time. Where usually they take at least ten minutes to warm up. Well, as it started taking off down the runway one of the engines cut out and that wing dipped, caught the runway and it did a cartwheel down the runway and just, you know, scattered all over. 01:20:00Well, the crash crew of course went out and they radioed back, all they could find was a PFC. Well this tower operator kept yelling at them, "Well find the pilot." Oh, they looked all over, said, "All we can find is this PFC." Well, as it turned out he had worked at assembly and repair, huge hangar across the field, and was mad because he couldn't get a leave and he stole a plane. Was going to take it up and crash it in the--but before he ever got it off the ground he was all over. So, I think he survived, but I don't know. He's probably 01:21:00still in the brig for all I know. But, you know, that was kind of an interesting shift too.

BORKOWSKI: I imagine.

ALLORD: Yes. And of course hurricanes, that was something else that we had to deal with. And while I was there we had three hurricanes and each time all of the aircraft have to be evacuated inland. And now only from Cherry Point, we had to evacuate all of them from the outlying fields. First to Cherry Point and then reassigned out to inland fields and that of course is total bedlam.

BORKOWSKI: I imagine.

ALLORD: I still run and look at any strange aircraft going over [hears a 01:22:00helicopter outside]. This one really bad hurricane, I had been out sailing and actually it was so calm we had gotten becalmed way out in the middle but finally sculled our way back in and I got back to the barracks. Everybody yelling at me, "You're supposed to get back on duty, there's a hurricane coming, they're evacuating aircraft." So, I had to quick get in my uniform, get to work and I never got back to the barracks for three days. We evacuated aircraft all that time and by that time of course the hurricane was upon us and we couldn't get back to the barracks. We were in the operations building which was concrete and 01:23:00they kept us there.

BORKOWSKI: Were you frightened?

ALLORD: No, they were just doing their job. But that was kind of a wicked one. Two fellows on the field were killed during that hurricane. Their ballast hut that they lived in collapsed and they were killed.

BORKOWSKI: What was that like, I mean here you are from northern Wisconsin where we might have a tornado or two, but--

ALLORD: I'll take a hurricane any day.

BORKOWSKI: Really, why?

ALLORD: There you've got warning and can get out of harm's way. A tornado was on you before you know what's happened. I was in one when I was really young, but I remember. No, hurricanes, as bad as they are, at least you've got warning. Like earthquakes too, there's no warning. I was in one a few years ago in California. 01:24:00Just scary enough to know what they're like. But, of course all the pilots come flocking in, want to take a plane someplace. It's exciting. Especially if they've got a girl friend or family some place. And sometimes if they're assigned to a different place, this went on all the time though, they were flying cross country they'd sort of strangely develop engine trouble near a girl friend's or families and send back a teletype, RON, Remain Over Night. Or weather, or something like that. Of course we knew better.

BORKOWSKI: Were they ever reprimanded for that kind of thing?

ALLORD: Oh, we don't know. They could have been. We had one really wild pilot, 01:25:00they called him Whitey. He was such a daredevil. He'd take planes cross country, to New York especially, and we knew that while there he'd be doing a lot of partying and when we'd get his flight plan coming back we alert the crash crew, "Whitey's coming back at such and such a time." But he was such a good pilot. He was like Pappy Boynton. Kind of a wild card. But, one day he did have a bomber out on a run over the ocean and he dipped down, was hedge hopping the waves, and caught the top of one of the waves and it knocked out one engine, it knocked out his flaps and it damaged his wheels. So, when he did come in he only had one 01:26:00engine, no flaps to slow him and he could only get one wheel halfway down and it stuck there. So, of course we watched him come in on half a wheel, half a wheel and a prayer. But, he made a wonderful landing on that half a wheel that was sticking down there and he kept that other wing up till he was at a--going really slow. All he did was slow ground route but that time, yes, I think he got restricted to the OQ [Officer's Quarters] for some time. That's one pilot we 01:27:00know was on restriction quite a bit [laugh].

BORKOWSKI: Sounds like it.

ALLORD: Yeah.

BORKOWSKI: So, what other ways did the war change your life do you think?

ALLORD: Well, of course, we always had that feeling of having to start over and I suppose besides having gone through this actually it was a good experience for us as a couple because we understood what the war was like and from the inside, not the outside what came in. We shared that. And then I guess we kind of look at the military in a little different way than most civilians do. And we 01:28:00understand, I guess, a little more what they're talking about when we get these news things that come through. And actually a lot of my friends are ex or former marines. I have quite a few of them right around here. In fact, this morning I got letters off to three of them in California. They all lived almost at the epicenter of the earthquake so I'm kind of concerned about them, people that I worked with. The ones around here I didn't work with, I just got to know them later.

BORKOWSKI: What were your expectations following the war and did that differ from what really happened, what actually happened?

ALLORD: I don't know if we had any big expectations. I think all we wanted to do was just get on with our lives. We didn't set any big, big goals and when we had a family we just wanted to raise them the best way we knew how. Of course, we've been focused on them and raising them. So, I don't suppose it made that much difference. Becoming millionaires certainly wasn't one of our aims.

BORKOWSKI: That may cover most of the questions that I had for you. Other things that you can think of regarding your experiences during the war?

ALLORD: I don't know what they'd have been except that we did of course travel a lot and I'm certainly glad I wasn't at home during that time. I'd have absolutely lost my mind, not knowing. I think not knowing would have been so hard. This way I was kept so busy and I was so focused on my job that I didn't have that much time to worry.

BORKOWSKI: Did being in the military give you a sense of being closer somehow than you would have had you been a civilian?

ALLORD: Oh yes. Much, yes. We more or less can, as they say, speak the same language. And a lot of my associations are with veterans. I belong to the Marine 01:31:00Corps League which is mostly men and we speak Marine language.

BORKOWSKI: How are you treated by the male veterans?

ALLORD: They, those, the Marines, treat us just exactly like they would anyone else including the Vietnam veterans who could all be our sons or grandsons as far as that goes. They treat us just great. Otherwise, I think we've had a bit of a tough time though being veterans in general. In some of the Legion posts and VFW posts they were not, I guess, treated that well. In fact, after the war 01:32:00we went home--

BORKOWSKI: Up to Tomahawk?

ALLORD: Tomahawk, and the commander of the Legion post, where Dad belonged, invited Larry to join their Legion post and invited me to join the auxiliary.

BORKOWSKI: How did you respond?

ALLORD: I said, "No thank you, but I'd be glad to join the Legion." And he had been a veteran himself, Army. He sort of stood there with his mouth open, going "Ah, ah, ah, well, ah, we don't have any women." I said, "I know, but I'm a veteran. And that's what the Legion is all about." "Well, uh, I'll have to let you know." So, apparently he looked up their bylaws whatever, called my folks' 01:33:00house where we were and said, "Yes, you're eligible." So, we were both sworn into that post and I was their first woman veteran and of course, Dad by that time was popping his buttons all over the place. As the war progressed he popped more and more and more. I didn't know it but when I'd write to him telling him what I had been doing he was taking it to the shop with him, showing it to everybody. Maybe I wouldn't have written some of the things I did [laugh].

BORKOWSKI: That's interesting because he was rather quiet about it when you first went in.

ALLORD: Right. But, as things progressed he changed his mind. Wasn't that bad after all.

BORKOWSKI: Interesting.

ALLORD: Yes.

BORKOWSKI: That's great.

ALLORD: Right. But, of course, I belong to the VFW Auxiliary, the Women Marine's 01:34:00Association, the United Women Veterans, the Marine Corps League and the War Birds of World War II in Janesville. They're all--in fact until a friend and I were invited to go there were no women that ever attended and there were a couple that weren't too happy about it and let it be known. So, one meeting when we weren't there, they really, I guess, hashed it over and about 99 percent were all in favor of our being members. But there's always a few of these machos that object and there always will be. And what makes me so upset now, when we talk to people [phone rings]. . . what were we talking about?

BORKOWSKI: Organizations and being admitted into the "boys' clubs."

ALLORD: Yes, right. Well, when they hear you're a veteran the first thing they think of is nurse. They take it for granted you were a nurse and we're having a terrible time breaking that notion. And usually any statutes, memorials, dedicated to women, represent nurses actually. And there are, in Wisconsin, I would guess between 20,000 and 22,000 women veterans and I think only a small percentage nurses. So, and we went up to Michigan for a V-J Day parade just a few years ago and I wore my dress white uniform in the parade and the other girls wore white and their caps, whatever they had. Well, most of the people up there didn't know that there were women Marines. Just didn't know it.

BORKOWSKI: That's surprising.

ALLORD: So, actually when we did get out of the service it was the attitude was, well, now you can go back to your kitchens where you belong.

BORKOWSKI: How did that feel?

ALLORD: Not very good. Just like the Vietnam veterans coming back. I think there we have a lot of similarities. Maybe that's why we get along so well.

BORKOWSKI: Interesting.

ALLORD: And I don't think we'll ever, ever really get past that entirely.

BORKOWSKI: Going to take some time I think.

ALLORD: Yes, yes. It will take a lot of time. So, we did participate in a lot of things.

BORKOWSKI: One of the things I wanted to ask you about, that I've asked of a few women in the military that I've interviewed, is what you think about women in combat now?

ALLORD: I've got mixed feelings about it. There are some things I think they can do but--infantry is one I've got my doubts about when it comes to, well face it, there's going to be hand-to-hand combat and somehow I can't see that, that they'd qualify. A few might, but I think they'd be the exception. I think as pilots, yes, they could. They'd be just as good pilots. I think operating most anything they could do just as well and certainly the in combat zones as support troops. And certainly they'd be in harm's way, and if that's what they want, I don't see why they should deny it. But, when it comes to ground infantry, I've got my doubts. But, to do it just to prove something, I think that's a little ridiculous. But, if it's something they really wanted to do, I don't think they should be held back, and certainly not held back from promotions. Yes. I think they should be given equal opportunity.

BORKOWSKI: Other things you can think of that we should include?

ALLORD: Right off I can't think of anything else. I have become somewhat of a veteran's activist and during the Persian Gulf War when they wanted to make Madison a sanctuary for objectors or deserters or, you know, whatever. That I really objected to. So, some of us got together and went to the City County building. I think there were, I don't know how many, a 100 of us at night, thousands probably because it was packed. We went early and got a place in the chambers and one of our girls signed up to speak and our pictures ended up the next morning on the front page. I didn't want any part of Madison becoming a sanctuary for deserters.

BORKOWSKI: Do you think your feelings were strong because of your service in the Marines?

ALLORD: Oh, I think that had a lot to do with it. And having two sons, one having enlisted and volunteered for duty in Vietnam. The other one had had his physical, he was ready to go when he was called, he was at the U. I couldn't see my sons being given sanctuaries, sanctuary, for refusing to serve their country. I just couldn't see it. We didn't raise them that way. And I didn't want any part of it. And we had supported, our women Marines had sort of adopted this Marine company that went to the Persian Gulf and were in contact with them and we sent them pictures from the paper and all of that and they were most appreciative of our support.

BORKOWSKI: It must have been an exciting time to be in the Marines during World War II.

ALLORD: Right. It was the first year, of course 1943 was the first year the women Marines were permitted in service, and at our last convention, we have conventions every two years and I've been to the last four, and in San Diego the Commandant of the Marine Corps and his wife flew from Washington and he was our keynote speaker at our final banquet and he did a lot of research on women Marines and history. And he told us that there were enough of us enlisted in World War II to replace enough men to make up the whole Sixth Marine Division. And they turned out to be much needed and it made us feel pretty good. But, he did tell us one funny story. Of course, in this building where he lives in Washington on Eighth and I, all of the portraits of former commandants are in his residence hanging on the wall and the day that it was announced in that building that women would become part of the Marine Corps one of the portraits fell off the wall [laugh]. I forgot which one. But, of course, that cracked us all up. I said, it's funny they didn't all fall down.

BORKOWSKI: And it's amazing that you've had such good treatment by the men that you worked with on the base.

ALLORD: The commandant was very supportive. In fact that's why we don't have an acronym like WAVE, WAC, SPAR, whatever. They said, well what will they be called? He said, they are marines, they will be called Marines. And so from that day forward we were called Marines and that was it. Yes, he was very supportive. And it was very obvious that the word had gone out from the top that we were to be treated with respect. It was very obvious. And of course, as you know, the Marines have always been made up of volunteers, not draftees. So, they were there because they had volunteered, not because they had to be.

BORKOWSKI: It sounds like it must have been a wonderful experience.

ALLORD: It really, really was. I wouldn't have traded it for anything, you know. I wish we wouldn't have had the war, but, since we had it I think I did the very best thing I could have done. And I have never ever regretted it for one minute.

BORKOWSKI: Well, thank you very much. This has been very enjoyable.

ALLORD: You're so welcome. I enjoyed it.